Need Legal Advice against Dealer

[jbs123]

Ok guys heres a good one that i am pissed about.

I bought my car in early September. I signed my contracts and was told Oct. 20 would be the day that my car payment is due. The banks name is (Bank A) and I would get a payment book from them. 20th of Oct rolled around and I called Bank A and they didnt have a clue who I was. Told them I had a car payment to pay them and they said they have no record of me. So I was like ok. I will wait for another week and see if i get a payment book from you and they agreed that i might not be in the system yet. Called again a week later and same results. So I was confused. Waited another week and got passed due notice from Bank B. I called Bank B and said, hey , I might have a car payment with you guys but I dont think I should pay your late fee. They looked me up and said nope. We dont know what you have but we show you dont owe anything nor have an account with us. Two days later on an early saturday morning I got a call from (Bank B) that they where gonna to repo my car. Told them fine come get it, however myself and my contract states I have an account with Bank A. They said I had it with them so I said fine and gave her my account number right then and paid a stupid fee. So, I am by now a month behind almost. I went ahead and paid 2 payments the next month but they still hit my credit with being late. So now I am buying a house and I have been calling Bank B for a three Months now to get it off my credit report. They said no and that they have my signature on the contract with Bank B as the name and on a couple of others docs. I told them there is now way in hell and send me a copy. Well, I have a copy now...The stupid dealer has marked out the original bank and but Bank B's name on it and Submitted to Bank B. I have the original CC of the documents showing Bank B is never mentioned and that they altered the contract after I signed. I call the dealer and they said they have all right to do that and I cant do anything. So now I am suppose to close on a house but my rate is higher now cause of this ding on my credit report. The dealer offered to send a letter and Make bank B send a letter stating all is fine, but I want more. I think this is BS.

Sorry for the long post but what do I do?
What can happen?

Thanks

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

Anyway to cry foul to the 3 credit reporing agencies?

[jbs123]

I have no time...takes 30 days to dispute and 30 days to to get off your credit..I am suppose to sign papers soon. I may have to let this house my 8 month pregnant wifes wants go.... :)

[Cam]

The dealer and the bank wouldn't back you up with a letter of explanation. Seems that should be acceptable to all parties involved. Good luck.

[jbs123]

They will back me up... with a stupid letter., but it will take 60 days...i need it off now...plus I dont think they should be able to do this. the bank needs to see a good credit score.

[GasGunR]

I think they are liable for the costs associated with the higher interest rates you might have to pay... IF you can prove that it is their inaccuracies that caused you to get the higher rate... I talked to a lawyer about something similar recently... I d say get an attorney that specializes in credit issues... usually good attorneys have a free initial office visit.

Good luck!

Don

Get a alwye

[wheelife]

1. Cant alter original Docs. (bad dealer)
2. Should be able to get stupid letter from bad dealer and present to new Bank, that should satisfy them for lower rate, regardless of credit report. Also include payment stubs for car payments and copy of original docs, Notarized?

if all else fails get good lawyer to threaten massive law suit, (but they must be skilled at doing such,) not your real estate lawyer, even though he would like your money.

[67alecto]

get the letter from the dealer so you can close on the house

once that is settled, I'd go medieval on the dealer and the bank...


http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/chapelle-5fingerslap-reized.gif

[jbs123]

I actually have a business laywer...I am talking to him soon. thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.

[vvv90]

"As your attorney I advise you to drive at top speed and we’ll be lucky if we get there before you turn into some kind of f***ing wild animal."

http://twoday.net/static/enfanterrible/images/fear%20and%20loathing.jpg

[ZMagnum]

From my experience many times all it takes is a letter from an attorney and suddenly everybody gets nice real quick. Things start happening much faster. Attorney's fees are much less if all they need to do is write a good letter on your behalf.

[StarJack]

If the lender has already pulled your reports it's too late for this. For future reference though, here goes... When you dispute an item on your credit report it is supposed to be removed immediately pending the outcome of the investigation into the dispute. I know for a fact that this is almost instantaneous when calling Equifax, and it should be the same for Experion and TransUnion. Most home lenders will pull all three reports and use the middle FICO score (and other details of course) to determine what offer to make. For lesser loans the lender usually has a primary credit reporting company to pull from and usually will not bother with pulling from the other agencies unless the primary is experiencing a slow (or no) response situation. It is rare these days for Equifax to have availability issues, can't speak for the others.

There's a catch. Using the dispute process to defraud a lender is a Federal Felony. You're risking a lot if you use this to cheat a lender. This information is intended for folks like the OP that have a legit reason to need to use it.

And JBS, IMO, it might be wise to consult with a Laywer that knows credit law to see if you have sufficient damages to warrant legal action. A lot depends on the home loan value, term, and basis point spread you're talking about on the loan you received.

[jbs123]

I am consulting a laywer. The dealer doctored the contract. This is crazy.

[ImaThorp]

I disputed a name and address mis-information on one of the bureas and it took about 7 days for them to get back with an all clear.

[jbs123]

Still doesnt clear the dealer of doctoring my contract.

I think the credit report will be fine now. Now just to make the dealer suffer for being stupid.

[BigBadMagnum99]

I would think you should be able to transfer that account from BANK B to BANK A with little difficulty. by having Bank A buy out the loan and open up a new loan for you! Ensure you file all the paper work and get copies of every transaction completed with the dealer and banks...note phone calls etc. if you do have to go to court!

Also, you should be able to contact someone from Credit bureau the 1-800 number and contact someone to erase your bad credit by stating you will be faxing copies of your payments you made, and the mix-up with Bank A & B and your dealer. It maybe worth to take a day-off work to get it all straighten out as I had IDENTITY THEFT 4 years ago and gave me a brutal credit rating until I finally called all the businesses that I had poor credit with and explained the situation. It cleared up in about 3 days!

Just a thought for everyone in the forum that it is worth to call up the Credit Bureau at least 2 times a year to ensure your credit rating is where it should be!

[jbs123]

Bank B is fixing my credit as we speak. 7 days. That problem fix...

Now how to make this dealer pay for doing this. He also made almost 2 percent off me on the interest I found out from Bank B.

[XCITsNU]

I would get a credit attorney, not a business attorney at this point. There could be a case for detrimental reliance. Your reliance on them to honor the contract as completed, has been detrimental to you. It is up to you to prove damage. In this case it is clear that the damage is financial, specifically time and credit score resolution. If you had lost the house because your rate was not where it should be, then even more cause for damage.

[ZMagnum]

"detrimental reliance" , "diminished value" Great terms to know. This site is great!

I would get a credit attorney, not a business attorney at this point. There could be a case for detrimental reliance. Your reliance on them to honor the contract as completed, has been detrimental to you. It is up to you to prove damage. In this case it is clear that the damage is financial, specifically time and credit score resolution. If you had lost the house because your rate was not where it should be, then even more cause for damage.

[jbs123]

actually now my credit is fine. Back to normal.

Now just to get the dealership.

[BigBadMagnum99]

If I were you I would take your Photocopy of your original contract you signed with the dealer, as well the deal with Bank A and new deal with Bank B and figure our the damages it has caused you and your family.

Next step is approach the Dealer Manager/Owner and let him know about the raw deal you got and how disappointed you are that they are trying to rip you off and cause a poor credit rating. They may give you some form of credit of your loses and maybe some accessories or free servicing for you vehicle for the dealings (if they don't, take your car to another dealer for servicing as they want to make money on servicing your vehicle).

If they won't listen (ie manager/owner) and laugh you off before you leave there office or disconnect your phone conversation inform them that you will be calling DCX in regards to the dealership as well you will take them to court over the contract they changed without you knowing!

Just my 2 canadian pennies....I hope everything works out for you!

[IceMag]

I don't mean to be a downer, but you might want to check the contract very closely. Oftentimes there might be a footnote that allows the dealer to shop your contract around and hence you wind up with a different lender than you thought.

Not trying to defent the dealer, but please check contract carefully before taking any legal actions that might only cost you in the end.

[done]

I doubt that you have a cause for action unless you can establish an economic loss. Aggravation is not sufficent to collect damges.

[jbs123]

So it is legal for a dealer to white out things and put whatever they want?

seems wierd to me.

They never sold the contract. They altered it. Bank B is also investigating this now and is fully on my side.

[Ice]

Just a thought for everyone in the forum that it is worth to call up the Credit Bureau at least 2 times a year to ensure your credit rating is where it should be!

You can get a free credit report (and score, now) from http://www.freecreditreport.com/.

Definitely a good idea for everyone.

[done]

So it is legal for a dealer to white out things and put whatever they want?

seems wierd to me.

They never sold the contract. They altered it. Bank B is also investigating this now and is fully on my side.

OK, but did their action with the contract cost you any significant money? Was the interest higher than you agreed too? Were the payments higher? Was the term longer? This is not a parsonal injury case, you have to suffer an economic loss to have a basis for legal action.

Now bank B may get peeved with the dealer, but did you ever ask Bank B why they never sent you a payment book/statement as they were the ones financing your car?

Please remember that you asked for legal advice and not someone to just agree with you.

[ASU_Magnum]

If everything is fine now and your credit is repaired than you probably dont have any lawsuit. Unless you can prove that you have lost money or something financially has happened to you because of the mistake, then basically all your going to be going after is an apology.

[HEMIwoman]

That is probably true...when you were going to have the financial losses related to credit issues, losing a house, etc...that is definitely meeting the damages requirement.

Trust me, I understand..it is the principle of the thing...and I would want "justice" as well..perhaps not going the route of the lawyer at first, and going through DCX is a better option..and won't cost you any money.

[Fiveoh]

I'm not a lawyer, but here is my two cents:

Doesn't matter if it caused him finacial hardship, doctoring contracts after the fact is not justified without the consent or knowledge of all parties. However, if people want to know about finacial hardship caused by this change then jbs123 already stated he didn't receive a lower interest rate on his home loan. A slight increase in mortgage rates can increase your total payments by thousands.

Either way, no business has the right to alter contracts without first discussing and signing the new terms with all parties involved. In jbs123's case, I am not sure if such a document was signed; however, the uniform commercial code clearly states:

2-209. Modification, Rescission and Waiver.

(2) A signed agreement which excludes modification or rescission except by a signed writing cannot be otherwise modified or rescinded, but except as between merchants such a requirement on a form supplied by the merchant must be separately signed by the other party.

The the buyer must sign a waiver to allow modifications to a contract. And what can be modified must be detailed and clear. If this did not happen and jbs123 wins this case (which seems he is) then this dealership needs to be reported to Chrysler for fraud.

[HEMIwoman]

I suppose I am just looking at it from the standpoint of a cost-benefit analysis....it is worth the money to do a lawsuit...to gain what?

Not sure...worth consulting an attorney, not sure if worth hiring one, just for satisfaction sake.

[Fiveoh]

I suppose I am just looking at it from the standpoint of a cost-benefit analysis....it is worth the money to do a lawsuit...to gain what?

Not sure...worth consulting an attorney, not sure if worth hiring one, just for satisfaction sake.

Totally understand and I wasn't specifically arguing against your concern. However, I've seen and heard of merchants doing this to people and we should not accept it. If it happened to me, my PRIMARY goal wouldn't be to gain finacially, but to ensure the dealership would never do it again to others.

Besides, if the dealership is willing to do something like this, then what stops them from doing some more illegal stuff? Anyone remember the 20/20 episode of the dealership who sold personal information to thieves so they can obtain credit cards?

[Dodger]

Interesting forum. I am glad your credit is fine. Things are back to normal. But the matter of the fact is you have a dealer causing fraud. Though their might not substantial damages to you but I am sure your not the only one. You have a document agreed with terms. If those terms change with out your consent that is fraud. Example: Since you have been talking about your mortgage application - he goes.



Ameriquest just lost a $425 million lawsuit in seventeen states. I know this is huge compared to your situation but the concept is the same. That is you have agreed, signed and to delivery on those expectations. Mortgages get sold everyday, two or three times. But the conditions cannot change. That’s my point. The dealer may have the right to contract a different bank, but the terms need to stay the same.

This sounds like the finance manager closed your deal too soon. Bank A was in pole position - either polled out or bank B offered a better deal on the backside. Most people don't realize the incentives in finance.



If you talk with your attorney, it may not feasible your own lawsuit. Suggest a class action lawsuit. This way the attorney work with a group of people that this happen too. I had something happen to me. I had leased to Hondas (sorry) a long, long time ago…..Here goes the story. The dealer charges me $800.00 and $750.00 for rust proofing packages. I told the dealer I was not going to pay this fee. The dealer said that all there cars leave the lot with this and it wasn’t an option.



A few later years later I received a letter from an attorney. It was a class action lawsuit against this Honda dealership. To find out that they didn’t have a rust proofing spray booth and for the past ten years, he was simply putting that cash in his pocket. Ten years of rust proofing cars with no over head 100% profits – hum.

No the downside, the dealer lost, but because he was supporting the states taxes the fine was very minimum. He had to pay for rust proofing to the cars, but after two years in Minnesota the damage was already done. And for those who purchased their cars thinking the rust proofing would provide them with years of no rust, guess again. What a joke!



So who wins? The ones with the check books and the attorneys. So you problem have no chance in winning but you could expose him of his dishonest acts.



Good Luck, keep us posted.

[EndersGame]

That is probably true...when you were going to have the financial losses related to credit issues, losing a house, etc...that is definitely meeting the damages requirement.

Trust me, I understand..it is the principle of the thing...and I would want "justice" as well..perhaps not going the route of the lawyer at first, and going through DCX is a better option..and won't cost you any money.

DCX unforuantly doesnt give a ****...

I sent them a letter that one of there 5 star dealerships lied to them that I was trying to do a straw purchase and got my approved deals with them canceled because I went with a rival dealer that had a better deal, so i lost my 1000 dollar rebate...

You know what DCX said? Tough ****.. and to "contact the appropriate dealer personal at the dealership I have a complaint with" Yeah in other words I should complain to the people that screwed me.....

I love my 300C but I would be hard pressed to ever deal with them again...

[Ice]

DCX unforuantly doesnt give a ****...

I sent them a letter that one of there 5 star dealerships lied to them that I was trying to do a straw purchase and got my approved deals with them canceled because I went with a rival dealer that had a better deal, so i lost my 1000 dollar rebate...

You know what DCX said? Tough ****.. and to "contact the appropriate dealer personal at the dealership I have a complaint with" Yeah in other words I should complain to the people that screwed me.....

I love my 300C but I would be hard pressed to ever deal with them again...

I'm confused.

Did YOU cancel the deal because you found a better deal at a rival dealership? Or did the DEALER cancel the deal after you had made a deposit?

Did you lose your deposit or the DCX rebate?

[EndersGame]

I'm confused.

Did YOU cancel the deal because you found a better deal at a rival dealership? Or did the DEALER cancel the deal after you had made a deposit?

Did you lose your deposit or the DCX rebate?

I went to Burns Motors from McAllen, TX originally.. and filled a credit application there and it was approved with a line of credit from Crystler Financial.... then went to Ed Payne Motors of Weslaco, TX and filed a credit app there as well same thing as above credit line approved by Cysyler Financial...

I got offer A from burns motors that never went down below MSRP.. they hadnt moved a 300C in 3 months and they did not want to go below MSRP.. I had been trying for 2 weeks to get them to keep lowering there numbers.. finally I went to that second dealership Ed Payne and they gave me 2 grand below MSRP, and then the 1 thousand dollar rebate from DCX lowered it to 3 grand below MSRP.. needless to say that was good enough.. Now i had left my 1,000 deposit at burns motors because they kept pussy footing around on the deal that I wanted.. So i went to get the deposit back and told them I didnt want to go with the deal.... as I had a better one.

During this whole process by the way... Ed Payne was contacted by Cystler Financial as to why the information on the credit app for burns motors was so inflated vs the information they filed... Ie Burns motors has put 2x the income ammount and increased the years of residence by 5 years. Ie they padded the application.... so when I went back to get my rebate check back suddenly burns motors knocked off 7 grand off the vechile below MSRP.. I told them no they had there chance, they ****ed me around for 2 weeks and then they tried to padd my application to DCX and I didnt trust them so i left after a LOT OF run around to get my deposit back.

So I go to Ed Payne sign the loan contracts etc.. everythings a go.. and out I take the vechile.. then about 3 days later I get a call from Ed Payne that Burns Motors had called DCX up and told them I was doing a "straw purchase" which was completly untrue and thus DCX had canceled the approval of the line of credit, combined with the padding of the applications made DCX wipe there hands clean of it.... So i lost my 1,000 rebate.....

Granted I went with my own bank and got a 2% lower APR then DCX so in the long run I saved more money over the 1,000 rebate but the whole experiance left me really damn pissed combined with the Character Defemation etc.. So i contacted DCX and told them the whole mess and delima that Burns Motors had done to me etc... and there reply basicly was "we dont care.... we dont handle dealer complaints.. its up to you to complain to dealer management about your complaints about them.. I will make sure this information gets fowarded to them...."

I was in complete shock... COMPLAIN TO DEALER MANAGMENT? I had already done so.. it was dealer management that screwed me!

After that DCX customer support = **** in my opionion..

[done]

I was in complete shock... COMPLAIN TO DEALER MANAGMENT? I had already done so.. it was dealer management that screwed me!

After that DCX customer support = **** in my opionion..

Although, based on the facts you presented, you did indeed have some strange experieinces with that dealer. However, you must keep in mind that the dealer is an independent company from DCX. They have a franchise to sell DCX cars and not owned by DCX. Therefore DCX has no part of the "strange dealings". You colud report the details to the BBB or, as I recall, there is a specific state agency that habdles complaints about dealers in TX.

However, again based on your presentation, you actually came out financially ahead on the deal with the better interest rate at the bank. So any basis for a complaint is being treated "rudely" and would not really interest any state agency.

Your recourse is to simply tell your friends, family and acquaitnences about that treatment and let those negative "vibes" about that dealer serve as "retribution".

[Ice]

So I go to Ed Payne sign the loan contracts etc.. everythings a go.. and out I take the vechile.. then about 3 days later I get a call from Ed Payne that Burns Motors had called DCX up and told them I was doing a "straw purchase" which was completly untrue and thus DCX had canceled the approval of the line of credit, combined with the padding of the applications made DCX wipe there hands clean of it.... So i lost my 1,000 rebate..... After that DCX customer support = **** in my opionion.. done is right that Burns Motors is independent, and you shouldn't expect Chrysler to fix their snafu. Certainly, DCX should take your feedback into account when it comes to Burns' 5 star rating. But, you might have a legitimate bone to pick with Chrysler Financial. IF they cancelled your loan based on bad information, then that was wrong. However, you would have needed to make clear that your concern was that they denied you the loan incorrectly. If you're happy with the loan you wound up with, and you haven't pushed the issue with Chrysler Financial, you probably shouldn't base your next car decision on how you feel now. If you have moved on, and didn't give them a chance to correct their own snafu, you might be judging too harshly. People work for companies, people make mistakes. Good customer service isn't avoiding mistakes, good customer service is doing what it takes to fix mistakes after they (inevitably) happen. That being said, you should probably pull your credit report. It is certainly possible that Chrysler Financial compounded their mistake (into an much nastier one) by reporting the reason why they cancelled your loan to the credit reporting agencies. If they did screw up your credit, then make sure they fix it. Ed Payne might even help you with this.

[dadshemi]

The dealers get kick backs from the banks. They probably get more George Washingtons back from the bank they decided to put you with. Do you have an original copy of your purchase areement stating Bank A? If you do you need to make copies of everything and send it to the big 3 agencys and dispute the credit reports with the back up. You can also contact your attorney general office and file a complaint against the dealer. This could be unfair practices, forward a copy of your complaint to the OWNER of the dealership with certified mail return reciept requested.

[jbs123]

My Credit is now fixed....thank you guys. I showeed prooof to Bank B and they are now looking into it.

Now, I want to do as much damage to the dealer as possible. I have even though about a protest outside there place ona busy weekends....I bet that would make them lose just a couple of customers.

I love living in the USA. ( I am prior Army and been to other countries.)

[crazy_luck]

My Credit is now fixed....thank you guys. I showeed prooof to Bank B and they are now looking into it.

Now, I want to do as much damage to the dealer as possible. I have even though about a protest outside there place ona busy weekends....I bet that would make them lose just a couple of customers.

I love living in the USA. ( I am prior Army and been to other countries.)

Heres a thought, let a local TV news station know about what happened. They seem to like stories like this (especially in slow news times).

Glad everything worked out for you.

[done]

Guys, keep perspective on this. JBS got his house, his car and decent interest rate. He is not damaged. The real problem was that Bank B, who has the contract, failed to send out a payment book or statement. If Bank B had done their job, no big issue would have occured.

Bank A and Bank B may have an issue with the dealer, but JBS, although inconvenienced, was not permanently damaged.