Camaro vs. Challenger

[lieu910]

I must say I like the new Camaro concept, but will more than likely get the Challenger.

I do have a concern that the Challenger is going to be significantly heavier than the Camaro. I hope I'm wrong and they are within 100lbs or so of each other.

[71GTX]

Doubt it very seriously. Unless they shrink the Challenger significantly, it will be a two ton, mid sized coupe. I would peg the Camaro at about 3500-3700 lbs fully loaded, the Challenger is REPORTED to weigh 4100. We shall see, but the safest bet is to take my route, buy one of each!

[shiltz]

Yeah, i'd bet it will be around 3600lbs. like the GTO is based off of, but who knows, it could be heavier than you would expect for it's size just like the Mustang GT500 which is about 4000lbs.

[69Chrgr]

I've spoken to many diehard chevy people, and they're not to overly impressed with the front end of the Camaro. It's a lot better looking than previous model Camaro's, however looks to much like a cross between a Caddy and a Vette.

[bipto]

I've spoken to many diehard chevy people, and they're not to overly impressed with the front end of the Camaro. It's a lot better looking than previous model Camaro's, however looks to much like a cross between a Caddy and a Vette.
I hope for Chevys sake that they use this feedback to make a few adjustments to this concept prior to production (assuming they green flag it). This could be a really successful product if they do it right...

[lieu910]

I've spoken to many diehard chevy people, and they're not to overly impressed with the front end of the Camaro. It's a lot better looking than previous model Camaro's, however looks to much like a cross between a Caddy and a Vette.

I know looks are subjective, but generally speaking the new Camaro is leaps and bounds better looking than a 4th gen F-Body IMO. I never liked the 4th gen styling at all, especially the Pontiac.

[lieu910]

Doubt it very seriously. Unless they shrink the Challenger significantly, it will be a two ton, mid sized coupe. I would peg the Camaro at about 3500-3700 lbs fully loaded, the Challenger is REPORTED to weigh 4100. We shall see, but the safest bet is to take my route, buy one of each!

Are they hiring by you??? :)

[Red5]

Cross between a caddy and a vette? Is there a problem with that?

[Zentenk]

I will be getting whichever one is closer to 3600 lbs. I don't like any Camaro's, this one looks WAY better. I love the Challenger the most, just wish it wasn't a fat slug. Hey! What's wrong w/ the Firebirds?

[lieu910]

I will be getting whichever one is closer to 3600 lbs. I don't like any Camaro's, this one looks WAY better. I love the Challenger the most, just wish it wasn't a fat slug. Hey! What's wrong w/ the Firebirds?

Nothing wrong with Firebirds. I just don't care for the styling much, but I can see why many people like them. Let's hope the Challenger can at least match the Camaro's performance in spite of it's weight. Somehow I don't see the Camaro weighing less than a GTO.

[Teahead]

I have to see them both in person. I think the Challenger would be TOO HUGE for my likings. Hell, it's bigger and longer than the original (which I have one) and I think that's as big as I want to go for a two-door.

[shiltz]

Personaly I like the fact that the Challenger is big, that is the one large downside for me for most perfomance coupes, they simply are two small and i'm not a huge fan of driving small car, I like driving larger cars and having all the space inside them, the Challenger inside is going to be very spacious, especialy in the rear seats for a coupe which is a nice deviation from your standard performance coupe with about enough leg room for an 8 year old maybe, like the new Mustang.

[grinner]

I'm hellbent on challenger now.
I was all about the new camaro a year ago but they missed their window and will simply be seen as following suit.

again.

[nick_danger]

GM needs to remove its head from its buttocks. I thought Ford was onto something with the new 'Stang, GT, and Continental and Forty-Nine concepts, but it turns out they're all just flukes in the grand scheme of making lame-ass generic cars. Is Gilles camping outside of art/design schools and loading all the good students into cattle trailers?

[cmdycrzr]

Here's the link to the story and some photos....

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0309phr_5camaro/

[ImaThorp]

I like the Challenger, no LOVE it for its looks. But as of now I'm pretty turned off by DC's invulnerable ECM's and PCM's. at to that speed density is just NOT the way to go for any kind of performance enhancements over stock.

At least Ford and GM are aftermarket friendly and use MAF systems. I'm pretty ticked that I'm still forced to drive a stock car around after almost a year of ownership.

[69Chrgr]

The haters can say what they want, but the Challenger is about to be the next big thing for DCX. Called two different dealerships in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and the dealerships are scrambling to get this thing in. Allen Samuels Dodge had 300 inquiries on Monday wanting to know when they could order. This may be near, 300C levels if executed properly. Just my .02 cents as I may very well be wrong.

[WindsorDodge]

The way to get this car built is mass response of prospective customers.... plain and simple.


DCX is weighing out cost to build vs. potential profit.... and marketing will sign up for sales based on market reaction.. ie emails.

If enough people want it... they'll build it.

[Teahead]

True. Last thing I heard, the bean counters crunching the numbers couldn't get it profititable w/an IRS w/a price that would be competitive w/the Moostang.

[cadzilla74]

If GM tries to make performance numbers by lightening the car they will lose. The GTO's are already poorly designed, poorly engineered (what trunk?) and poorly placed in the market. Sure, make a 3500lb rocket that rattles and heaves like a Yugo. There will be fan-boys that will sing their praises for a year and then not be able to sell one on E-bay even with a cardboard spoiler. I've got 14.000 on my 05 Mag RT and when I get my Challenger the Mag will still be my daily driver for years to come. Not a rattle, squeak or piece out of place yet. And it has gotten faster with age.

[Zentenk]

If GM tries to make performance numbers by lightening the car they will lose. The GTO's are already poorly designed, poorly engineered (what trunk?) and poorly placed in the market. Sure, make a 3500lb rocket that rattles and heaves like a Yugo. There will be fan-boys that will sing their praises for a year and then not be able to sell one on E-bay even with a cardboard spoiler. I've got 14.000 on my 05 Mag RT and when I get my Challenger the Mag will still be my daily driver for years to come. Not a rattle, squeak or piece out of place yet. And it has gotten faster with age.

Yes, that is why I need a Dodge, they are flawlessly built!!

[69Chrgr]

Yes, that is why I need a Dodge, they are flawlessly built!!
My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.

[TurboAWD]

http://yellowbullet.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6112&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Look how many guys with REAL 1st gen Camaros are still going to buy the DODGE CHALLENGER

[TurboAWD]

http://www.dotany.com/img/wheelcompare.jpg
SRT-8 Wheel VS Camaro Concept wheel. Pathetic they have to copy such an easy thing to create

[MCaesar]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.

Don't forget the hump in the floor that your passenger had to deal with

[MattRobertson]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.Man does that post ever bring back a lot of memories...

[BUTWEET]

Challenger....hands down! BTW......what's a Camaro, anyway? :wink:

[iRock]

I know some Chevy fans that like the Challenger better.

[iRock]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.
And the pitifully cramped back seats.

[cadzilla74]

I dumped a 67 Goat and a 68 Camaro SS396 to get my Hemi Challenger back in 69. Never looked back. Been a Mopar freak ever since. My bad I guess. Won't bore this forum with the details of why both GM's had to go. Not saying I never had fun with 'em, just sayin'....

Thanks 69Chrgr I really didn't need rescuing but I appreciated your post all the same...lol. I'm not saying the Dodge is flawless by any stretch of the imagination but, to be honest, I was expecting a LOT more trouble than I've had with a first year model and certainly thought the fit and finish on the Magnum might not hold up over the long haul considering the price point. Well EXCUUUSE me for being a satisfied customer. My Magnum has exceeded all my expectations in the FUN department and with all the spirited flings we've had together so far it still is a beautiful and smooth and quiet cruiser when we're just being mellow. Sorry, I have no complaints with the car or my dealer or the fact that DCX won't give them away with the purchase of a Slurpie just to keep sales figures up. Your mileage may vary.

[Darthvader]

Seems that even if they make either car they will be watered down significantly,especially the Camaro. Gm never follows through on there concept cars.They make dramatic changes to better suit current manufacturing equipment and heavily rely on existing platforms.Plus they will be feeling the cash crunch for years to come.

However,Chrysler has a much better track record at following through which all started with the Viper which was nothing more than a factory kit car/hot rod.They followed that with the Prowler which was amazing strickly from a safety compliance standpoint. Very impressive program. Others like the Crossfire are cool too and all 2 door cars.So unlike GM with their watered down crap like the Monte Carlo come back,the Impala SS POS comeback.Add to that the belly flop SS convertable truck,yuk. So, Chrysler is the most likely to do something good with the retro comeback.But even that is questionable based on the current economics.

Nasty ATV Sale if any one wants to jump in:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4605329696&fromMakeTrack=true

[cadzilla74]

Darthvader makes a good point if history provides a lesson. DCX revives a badge like Challenger (that 80's Mitsubishi abortion not withstanding) and makes it a true pony car for the millennium. GM puts the Camaro badge on a what? A true, fresh off the drawing board recapturing of past glory? Or a Malibu knockoff with a big motor that will get you killed because you can't steer it or stop it? And they'll sell a million of 'em because they're cheap. Buyer beware! DCX is building true "muscle cars" with big motors and Mercedes underpinnings. DCX is gonna win this war, Ford is the only competition and GM is in big trouble.

[Zentenk]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.

Yeah, I see lots of Crappy FBodies... all cars will turn to crap though if you don't take care of them, reliability really relies on the owner of the vehicle. (good job taking care of your car) But even taking care of your car won't help with average wear and tear over the years... soon my car will have to go. Hopefully a nice 09 Challenger/Camaro will replace it. Then I can have a nice Warranty and then after that is gone, big mods. Then I can feel the power I once had... lol.

[71GTX]

Darthvader makes a good point if history provides a lesson. DCX revives a badge like Challenger (that 80's Mitsubishi abortion not withstanding) and makes it a true pony car for the millennium. GM puts the Camaro badge on a what? A true, fresh off the drawing board recapturing of past glory? Or a Malibu knockoff with a big motor that will get you killed because you can't steer it or stop it? And they'll sell a million of 'em because they're cheap. Buyer beware! DCX is building true "muscle cars" with big motors and Mercedes underpinnings. DCX is gonna win this war, Ford is the only competition and GM is in big trouble.

What in the hell are you talking about? The Camaro is going to be based off of a platform designed with IRS and RWD from the get go, much like the LX platform. The Malibu is a FWD built on the Epsilon platform.

As much as I like the Challenger, which is a whole bunch, there is a very good chance that the Camaro will come in lighter, handle better, be less expensive and the top end model will most likely put a Challenger back on the trailer, stock for stock. Yes the 6.4 is nice, but so is the LS7, and seeing as how Bob Lutz has said now on 2 seperate occasions that the LS7 is a potential engine for the Camaro, I would not discount it all. Also, since the Challenger is so much bigger than the Camaro (the Challenger concept is the same size and weight as the 1970 Hemi Roadrunner, not exactly "Pony Car" size by any definition of the word) the LS2 which currently has 400 hp, will make even the mid level performer competitive with what we have seen in the Challenger so far. Lastly, though not entirely the focus of people who will be buying thse cars, the better gas mileage of the LS series engines will be a point in favor of the Camaro.

Sorry to dispell your myths, but just as I despise the trailer park stigma of the Camaro, so too do I despise the Red-Neck moron stereo-type of Dodge lovers.

Caveat Emptor indeed! :roll:

[shiltz]

Actualy the LS engines don't really have better fuel economy, they only look it if you look at the economy in a vette which isn't a good comparison as it is a much lighter car, the LS2 is 18 city,28 highway, 21 combined in a vette, go to a heavier car, the GTO which is likely around what the camaro will weigh and now it's 17 city, 25 highway, 19 combined, the 5.7 get's 17 city, 25 highway, 20 combined but that's in a significantly heavier car than even the GTO, about 400lbs more, the 5.7 in a car around 3700lbs could very well be around 19/27-28ish. also worth noting that the LS2 requires premium while the 5.7 requires midgrade so even at the same fuel economy the 5.7 will be cheaper.

[71GTX]

Compare the LS2 to the SRT 6.1. If we are going to compare mid level powerplant, lets compare the 5,4 liter, which gets 28 in the Impalla SS. Also, the observed fuel economy, highway, of most LS1's was 27-30.

Yes the 'Vette gets great fuel economy, but let's also remember that the LS7 is rated at 26 Highway, and that is for a 11.0 to 1 505 HP 427 c.i. mill.

Guys, don't get me wrong. I love the Challenger. I am lucky enough that I WILL own both a Challenger AND a top level Camaro (SS or Z/28-whichever they choose to call it). But loving your chosen brand does not mean you should be blind to the cool stuff coming from Ford and GM. I for one am not a huge fan of the Mustang, but I admit the new one is sharp looking, and personally, I am thankful as hell that it is as sucessful as it is. If it wasn't, I sincerely believe we would not see either the Cahllenger or the Camaro coming.

[cadzilla74]

OK, I stand corrected in theory. Still waiting to see the car. Hope it'll be cool. We only have a few years left to even enjoy this resurgence in fossil-fuel horsepower wars. I have a Hemi now. It's fun. Now. See ya next year.

[cromagnumman425]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.

Had to smile while reading your post as I have owned several 79 Trans Ams. I would love to have another. I escaped those problems ( but know they existed) mine were always in top condition as well as my 68 400 Firebird. My need for a bunch of older cars has been changing since there are finally nice cars coming out after 20 years of waiting. My Magnum R/T and my Solstice are awesome and now I am waiting for the Challenger.

[71GTX]

I have a Hemi now. It's fun. Now. See ya next year.

That we can agree on 100%. While I Don't have a Hemi (yet), I wish you continued enjoyment of her.

[69Chrgr]

What in the hell are you talking about? The Camaro is going to be based off of a platform designed with IRS and RWD from the get go, much like the LX platform. The Malibu is a FWD built on the Epsilon platform.

As much as I like the Challenger, which is a whole bunch, there is a very good chance that the Camaro will come in lighter, handle better, be less expensive and the top end model will most likely put a Challenger back on the trailer, stock for stock. Yes the 6.4 is nice, but so is the LS7, and seeing as how Bob Lutz has said now on 2 seperate occasions that the LS7 is a potential engine for the Camaro, I would not discount it all. Also, since the Challenger is so much bigger than the Camaro (the Challenger concept is the same size and weight as the 1970 Hemi Roadrunner, not exactly "Pony Car" size by any definition of the word) the LS2 which currently has 400 hp, will make even the mid level performer competitive with what we have seen in the Challenger so far. Lastly, though not entirely the focus of people who will be buying thse cars, the better gas mileage of the LS series engines will be a point in favor of the Camaro.

Sorry to dispell your myths, but just as I despise the trailer park stigma of the Camaro, so too do I despise the Red-Neck moron stereo-type of Dodge lovers.

Caveat Emptor indeed! :roll:

Ummm........I don't think so. I think you're living a pipe dream about your Camaro, but hey, whatever floats your boat. When my wife and I were married she unfortunately had a '96 Camaro. It was a POS. I previously owned a '92 5.0 liter Mustang and the quality of the Mustang was FAR superior to the Camaro. I bought the Mustang cause Ma' Mopar didn't have any ponycar at the time. So from owning both a Camaro and a Mustang, I can say there was no contest between the two.

[MCaesar]

That Camaro thing is funny

Some guy arguing about a car which isn't even close to production

and he uses incorrect facts

[71GTX]

LOL, tell ya what. Why don't we go revisit this when the Camaro and the Challenger are out. Since my 1991 L98 Z/28 would smoke a 5.0 liter 'Stang, not really sure what you are basing the POS comment on, nor do I really care. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[71GTX]

That Camaro thing is funny

Some guy arguing about a car which isn't even close to production

and he uses incorrect facts

Please, elucidate me, since my facts are incorrect.

[MCaesar]

Please, elucidate me, since my facts are incorrect.

Lets try all of them

1. The Camaro not only is not even a go yet, the platform for it has been a go, cancelled, a go, and now is ???

2. The fuel efficiency myth of the LS engine series has already been debunked

3. You have no idea of the weight of either car right now

4. The 6.1 in the much heavier LX cars has already proven to be a match to the 6.0 LS2 in much lighter cars

5. 2 or 3 years from now you have no idea of what either engine will be or even either one will be used

6. LS7 in the Camaro is not very likely

Most importantly, you are arguing about 2 cars that are not even close to production and pretending that you know the facts on either car.

That is why your post is a joke.

You, and no one else, has any idea right now how these two cars will fare against each other ASSUMING that both get built!

JOKE!

[69Chrgr]

Lets try all of them

1. The Camaro not only is not even a go yet, the platform for it has been a go, cancelled, a go, and now is ???

2. The fuel efficiency myth of the LS engine series has already been debunked

3. You have no idea of the weight of either car right now

4. The 6.1 in the much heavier LX cars has already proven to be a match to the 6.0 LS2 in much lighter cars

5. 2 or 3 years from now you have no idea of what either engine will be or even either one will be used

6. LS7 in the Camaro is not very likely

Most importantly, you are arguing about 2 cars that are not even close to production and pretending that you know the facts on either car.

That is why your post is a joke.

You, and no one else, has any idea right now how these two cars will fare against each other ASSUMING that both get built!

JOKE!

1 Yes. 2 Yes. 3 Yes. 4 Yes. 5 Yes. 6 Yes. 7 Yes. Boy, I'm glad somebody besides me gets it.

[69Chrgr]

LOL, tell ya what. Why don't we go revisit this when the Camaro and the Challenger are out. Since my 1991 L98 Z/28 would smoke a 5.0 liter 'Stang, not really sure what you are basing the POS comment on, nor do I really care. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Ummm...I don't think so.....again. No way a 1991 Z-28 would run with a 1992 5.0 stock for stock. Your drinking too much Camaro Kool Aid. My dad has the 87 GN and it would stomp a 91 Z-28 and beat my Mustang by about 4 car lengths.

[MCaesar]

1 Yes. 2 Yes. 3 Yes. 4 Yes. 5 Yes. 6 Yes. 7 Yes. Boy, I'm glad somebody besides me gets it.

What really makes the comparison silly is GM usually doesn't even build their show cars. I am still waiting for the RWD Holden-based Impala SS instead of the warmed over Lumina they now sell.

Chrysler, more often than not, actually turns their show cars into production cars.

[Red5]

Had to smile while reading your post as I have owned several 79 Trans Ams. I would love to have another. I escaped those problems ( but know they existed) mine were always in top condition as well as my 68 400 Firebird. My need for a bunch of older cars has been changing since there are finally nice cars coming out after 20 years of waiting. My Magnum R/T and my Solstice are awesome and now I am waiting for the Challenger.

Wow, where'd you find a Solstice?

[Rev.Hammer]

There is one that travels around here and that lil knocker is hot-lookin!!!

[Northern Rider]

What really makes the comparison silly is GM usually doesn't even build their show cars. I am still waiting for the RWD Holden-based Impala SS instead of the warmed over Lumina they now sell.

Chrysler, more often than not, actually turns their show cars into production cars.

How true.

And on what platform do they plan to build the Camaro?

[Displaced Hokie]

That's the biggest thing to me is that Chrysler has a platform pretty much ready to go. GM has nothing current, other than the GTO platform which is in flux. Our car could have two years under it's belt before the Camaro ever shows up.

I also think this affects the appearance of the show cars. The Camaro team could pretty much do whatever they wanted size wise as they had no constraints. The Challenger sort of had to work with the LX platform. That's not a jab at the Challenger at all. But what it tells me is that it's very possible that the Camaro may come in looking quite a bit different from the show car. On the other hand, if you like the Challenger, you won't be dissapointed.

I also saw on AutoExtremist.com that the accountants were already becoming an issue in the Camaro project. One reason the car looks so good is it doesn't have a B-pillar. Well, a frame that's rigid enough without a B-pillar has been deemed "too expensive to design"...

Hokie

[RocketJock]

I hate the new Camaro concept and I'm a GM guy from birth (until I bought a Ford truck and have a Magnum on order!). Anyway, new Mustang and Challenger concept are retro done right- old style made current. New Camaro is retro done wrong- futuristic style with some retro "clues". I guess they just love that "chiseled grizzle" look from the Cadillac line so much that they just can't help themselves. Or, the Caddies are the only thing "new" that they've got so they have to down that path with everything. GM is dead and this POS is proof positive. Terrible design and too late. They’ve had what, 3 years to come up with something and this is the best they can do? Looks like some 16 year old in design school did this as a homework project and they just put it out there so they could at least have “something”. Absolute crap.

[Samax]

GM took their chance and put the company’s future in SUV's and trucks. Good move.:doh: DCX has seen the light. A larger majority of the male American public wants RWD V8 cars. The resurrection of the 300C started the fire, the Magnum has added to it and the Charger is stoking the coals. The Challenger is the obvious direction that DCX needs to go. :thumbs_u:

I am not into SUV's, trucks, or FWD and I feel there are quite a few people who are in the same boat. GM's bean counters have discussed why they should build a RWD car that they might make a 30% margin on when they can sell SUV or truck that has a margin of over 50%. From a business perspective it makes sense, but when the market is over saturated with SUV's and trucks there isn't tons of growth left. The muscle car market has been deprived for years and Ford has proved that the market is under supplied. Bean counters can be the death of a company in more ways than any other division.

Getting to my point. I feel that DCX will follow through with a good contender for the muscle car market. I feel like they can probably get the weight down with an SRT version by using lighter panels and shaving weight off in other areas. If base models are portly who cares, they are base models. The performance version should be lighter because they are performance models. Putting all the weight aside I don't feel that the Camaro stands a chance... ...against GM's accountants.

[FStephenMasek]

DCX has seen the light. A larger majority of the male American public wants RWD V8 cars. Yes, DCX is way ahead of Ford and GM on RWD cars, but I just read this week that Chrysler's sales are still 70% trucks of some sort. With the 20-20 vision of hindsight, it is easy to call the truck/SUV emphasis by GM. Ford and Chrysler a mistake, but as I also read this week, just ten years ago Ford was profitable and gaining market share via strong sales of its SUVs.

If you look at dealer inventories, the Magnums are really accumulating. I also see many used 300s and Magnums on the used car lots in places such as East LA, although most of them appear to be V6 cars with aftermarket wheels.

As someone else remarked (sorry, I' don't remember who), the Challenger concept appeared to be production ready, while the Camaro concept seems to be much further from production. DCX might be wise to cut (not eliminate, just cut back to match the demand) Magnum production and use that capacity to start building Challengers NOW. The market exists now, and the Mustang is the only real competitor.

[Samax]

I don't doubt that their truck sales account for 70%, but I don't see that portion of the business growing. The best area for potential growth is the RWD car market because there aren't a lot of options. Some people are only going to buy trucks and that will never change. Companies don't need to dump huge sums of money into a market that doesn't have tons of room for potential growth. Now I am not saying that they should forget about the trucks and SUV's, continue to develop and improve, but dump the larger sums of money into the areas that have the largest potential for growth.

[FStephenMasek]

I don't doubt that their truck sales account for 70%, but I don't see that portion of the business growing. The best area for potential growth is the RWD car market because there aren't a lot of options. Some people are only going to buy trucks and that will never change. Companies don't need to dump huge sums of money into a market that doesn't have tons of room for potential growth. Now I am not saying that they should forget about the trucks and SUV's, continue to develop and improve, but dump the larger sums of money into the areas that have the largest potential for growth.
Exactly! Also, sales of the Dodge Sprinter are growing, and now there is an all new version. As more and more contractors learn the advantages of the Sprinter over a pickup truck (easy access to cargo, security, cargo does now fly off on the freeway, much better fuel mileage, greater passenger carrying ability), sales of pickups may slow. Pickups are very rare in Europe, but Sprinters and vehicles similar to them are common.

[RocketJock]

DCX might be wise to cut (not eliminate, just cut back to match the demand) Magnum production and use that capacity to start building Challengers NOW. The market exists now, and the Mustang is the only real competitor.

The problem Dodge will have is exactly that, too many vehicles competing for just about the same core audience. I think the Challenger will have the biggest impact on Charger sales. From what I've read on this forum, the two-door coupe body is the car most of the Charger guys wanted in the first place. They could probably give half of the Charger production to the Challenger today and not miss a beat on sales. It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out...

[MCaesar]

The problem Dodge will have is exactly that, too many vehicles competing for just about the same core audience. I think the Challenger will have the biggest impact on Charger sales. From what I've read on this forum, the two-door coupe body is the car most of the Charger guys wanted in the first place. They could probably give half of the Charger production to the Challenger today and not miss a beat on sales. It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out...

The Charger will lose some sales but not too many as a lot of people really need 4 dors (the reason why 2 doors don't sell well). It will not be nearly as bad as the Charger taking the Magnum sales. I think that Grand Cherokee SRT8 sales will eat into Magnum SRT8 sales also. It offers more utility since it is 4WD.

[Tim06WK]

Ummm...I don't think so.....again. No way a 1991 Z-28 would run with a 1992 5.0 stock for stock. Your drinking too much Camaro Kool Aid. My dad has the 87 GN and it would stomp a 91 Z-28 and beat my Mustang by about 4 car lengths.

Wrong!! I had a 91 Z28 5.7L and it would eat stock 5.0's all day.

[stevesrt8]

I don't believe the Camaro as shown will ever be built. Great concept but Bean counters rule GM, and they will take many years to even approve a design study!

DCX has the best chance of a good pony car, and it will be all grown up into a real Stallion!

[Caps94ZODG]

I don't believe the Camaro as shown will ever be built. Great concept but Bean counters rule GM, and they will take many years to even approve a design study!

DCX has the best chance of a good pony car, and it will be all grown up into a real Stallion!

Actually Lutz said there will be no design study for Camaro at all. He actually has pull over the bean counters, thank god.

[SmoovC]

My memories of Camaro/Firebirds quality - Door handles breaking in half requiring your index finger to peel the end of the handle to open the door. Dam near breaking your back to lift the heavy sagging door off the hinge. Closing the door with the window down as the door handles have broken off the inside of the door. Watch the door glass fling around profusely as you had to slam the sagging door. Finally once in the wonderfully constructed Firebird/Camaro, not being able to see over the dash as the dash board had peeled(from sun exposure) up osbstructing your vision. Oh yeah, and after the shock towers in the back breaking off their puter mounts, the ride and sound it had riding down a bumpy road. So yeah, compared to the quality of Camaro/Firebirds I'd say the LX's are flawlessly built. Of course most Camaro/Firebird owners also love their trailer homes too, so who am I too talk.

After owning (in my younger years) a '79 Z-28, which suffered all of the problems stated and was a money pit to keep up to my standards, I bought a new '91 RS. Man, that thing was cursed from day one! It got dropped off the transport truck, bent the core support, so the cooling fan didn't work. Didn't notice this until the weather got hot, along with the engine! T-tops (remember those?!) didn't leak water, (although I am sure just a matter of time) leaked air from the get go. Traded the car in 6 months later, and took a bath on it.

Isn't life just a little bit better in a Reparo (no spelling error!) by Chevrolet!!?