Suspension stepping out

[OLJustice]

Anyone notice the rear of their cars 'stepping out' (for lack of a better phrase) on the highway when going over certain kinds of bumps/dips? It's not consistent enough for me to figure out what types of bumps cause it, but I notice that it feels like the back end of my Charger steps out to one side and then the other when going over certain imperfections in the highway.

This lateral movement is very disconcerting and downright dangerous at high speeds. Please don't confuse this with bumpsteer. I know what bumpsteer is and this is certainly not it. This is coming from the rear of the car and causes the car to 'rock' sideways briefly after hitting a bump/dip. Its not all the time and the conditions have to be right-but when it does happen.... oh boy is it scary.

[typicalmarine]

Have you upgraded any of your suspension components? I feel the stock suspension isn't compatable with the power and definitely isn't designed for performance. Other than the rear end feeling like it's kicking out the body roll caused another "pucker factor" at higher speeds. One of my first mods was a front and rear sway bar set up along with Eibach springs and dampers. Ride quality is OUTSTANDING since the change.

[Popeye's Hemi]

Anyone notice the rear of their cars 'stepping out' (for lack of a better phrase) on the highway when going over certain kinds of bumps/dips? It's not consistent enough for me to figure out what types of bumps cause it, but I notice that it feels like the back end of my Charger steps out to one side and then the other when going over certain imperfections in the highway.

This lateral movement is very disconcerting and downright dangerous at high speeds. Please don't confuse this with bumpsteer. I know what bumpsteer is and this is certainly not it. This is coming from the rear of the car and causes the car to 'rock' sideways briefly after hitting a bump/dip. Its not all the time and the conditions have to be right-but when it does happen.... oh boy is it scary.

It's called bump steer and that can be googled here and it can be corrected with Pedders and Razors Edge parts. Maybe a few others are available too.

[OLJustice]

Have you upgraded any of your suspension components? I feel the stock suspension isn't compatable with the power and definitely isn't designed for performance. Other than the rear end feeling like it's kicking out the body roll caused another "pucker factor" at higher speeds. One of my first mods was a front and rear sway bar set up along with Eibach springs and dampers. Ride quality is OUTSTANDING since the change.

My apologies for not listing my suspension mods. I have an 06 RT with SRT suspension (shocks/struts/springs) all around. I also have a front SRT Brembo brake setup so my front knuckles are SRT as well. I do not have upgraded sway bars. I should also note that its not really body roll that I am experiencing. It is an outright left or right movement of the ass-end of the car. It's a lateral movement. left to right. It happens when hitting bumps/dips while going straight, not just turning.

It's called bump steer and that can be googled here and it can be corrected with Pedders and Razors Edge parts. Maybe a few others are available too.

Bump steer comes from the front. This is the rear of the car. I have that too btw, but I'll be getting a Pedders bumpsteer kit to address that. I can deal with a little bumpsteer but what I am experiencing is downright dangerous. Especially at 70mph on NY/NJ highways - streets.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

copied from my reply in your other thread.

it's all in the bushings, 9 bushings per wheel, 4 bushings that hold the subframe to the unibody, it all leaves a bit to be desired.

Your rear cradle is most likely shifting and causing the thrust angle to change. It was a weird feeling when i first got my charger and kept getting knocked left to right. I had never been in a car that did that, I found it very disconcerting also.

I was able to reproduce it with some 'creating' alignment specs that i tried as a test by causing the rear toe to be very negative, made the rear of the very wobble happy, i mention this because it was considerably worse, but very similar to the OE wobble the car had.

[OLJustice]

copied from my reply in your other thread.

it's all in the bushings, 9 bushings per wheel, 4 bushings that hold the subframe to the unibody, it all leaves a bit to be desired.

Your rear cradle is most likely shifting and causing the thrust angle to change. It was a weird feeling when i first got my charger and kept getting knocked left to right. I had never been in a car that did that, I found it very disconcerting also.

I was able to reproduce it with some 'creating' alignment specs that i tried as a test by causing the rear toe to be very negative, made the rear of the very wobble happy, i mention this because it was considerably worse, but very similar to the OE wobble the car had.

My problem is this- if its an alignment issue and can thusly be fixed by a trip to the dealer and getting a cradle shift alignment done (my rear has extremely negative camber that needs to be fixed anyway) then that's no problem. However, if my rear bushings are truly all shot and an entire rear bushing kit is the only solution then im pretty much screwed because while I can afford the rear cradle bushings, the entire rear kit is way put of my range for anytime in the foreseeable future.

in one of our PM convos I believe you stated that when it comes to the rear its either "all or nothing" for any real fix with bushings replacement. I guess the purpose of this thread was to figure out if this dangerous handling characteristic is 'normal' for LX's or if its just me.

Posted via LXFMobile

[Rob@WretchedMS]

it's normal with the stock bushings,

I didn't say that all of your rear bushings are shot, just that they allow to much movement

[OLJustice]

So then in your opinion would it be pointless to purchase just a set of cradle bushings? Could that alone provide any significant improvement to this "side stepping" dance that the back of my car does?

[Rob@WretchedMS]

not pointless, it would help, but i'm not confident it would cure it with so much mush in the rest.

[fireman2118]

I know the feeling or should I say knew the feeling. Since I've had the sportline springs and the prodampers installed, that bouncy, floaty, mushy, left, right, questionable handling is but a distant memory.

[Cam]

Did you drop the cradle when you installed the springs or just the lower control arms.

[formerice]

First an alignment and thorough inspection of all rear bushings. When my car had 135,000 miles it started feeling the same way so I bit the bullet and replaced all the bushings with Pedders. It now handles better than new. Still the cradle bushings look like the biggest culprits. If you get it aligned and it feels the same, I'd go for the cradle bushings first. When the time comes, Rob will treat you right. A1 service.

[OLJustice]

Did you drop the cradle when you installed the springs or just the lower control arms.

The cradle wasn't dropped, the installer lowered the control arms using a big-ass pry bar.

[Hemi31]

Justice you need to get a full alignment since you changed the springs and lowered the car.........until thats done you will never know anything else and just keep spending money on things you don't need.

[OLJustice]

Justice you need to get a full alignment since you changed the springs and lowered the car.........until thats done you will never know anything else and just keep spending money on things you don't need.

Thats the thing Erik, I've gotten a full alignment since then.... about 4 times.

- once at the dealer without the cradle shift
- once at a dealer with the cradle shift
- twice at firestone

They were always able to bring the front into spec. Rear has always been messed up for some reason. I have had a 28pt Pedders inspection and they couldn't find anything wrong (bushing wise). About 2 hours ago I got my cats "serviced" ;) and personally spent 30min under the lift checking bushings in the rear... no tears that I could find. All components (spring links, lower control arm, cradle itself) appear fine and unbent. There is however a unhealthy amount of negative camber on the tires but I'm not sure if that's related.

According to Pedders, a certain amount of 'step out' is normal for our cars. I will agree that these cars are a bit 'mushy' feeling from the factory, but the fact that it wasn't this way when I bought my RT 2 years ago is what is driving me up a wall. I've already spent at least a grand trying to find out the source of this suspension issue. I've got Hotchkis sway bars and a motor collecting dust b/c all my money is going into figuring this out. This is my DD so I can't have the ass-end of my car swinging all over the place on every bump. Especially in NYC of all places.

[Hemi31]

maybe adjustable upper links to bring the camber back to a normal place.

[OLJustice]

maybe adjustable upper links to bring the camber back to a normal place.

This may be the next step. I think will take yet another trip to Zanetti Dodge to see if they can fix the camber issue with another cradle shift. Hopefully this will help the stepping out.

[Popeye's Hemi]

This may be the next step. I think will take yet another trip to Zanetti Dodge to see if they can fix the camber issue with another cradle shift. Hopefully this will help the stepping out.

Is your ride lowered any and is negative chamber where the top of the tire is tilted inward?

[formerice]

I 'm pretty sure the upper control arm bushings will take care of the negative camber, did on my car. The alignment shop was going to do a cradle shift front and back on my car. I said" See these bushings, they are adjustable!" Cradle shift will only make one side same as the other. The Pedders bushings are a Godsend. Damn, I wish you were closer, I'd let you drive my 150,000 mile Magnum. Sticks to the road like glue.

[OLJustice]

My ride isn't really lowered unless you consider SRT shocks and springs 'lowered'. it is lower than a stock RT; it sits just as low as an SRT-about an inch lower. I just mentioned the negative rear camber as a sidebar. the main issue is the left/right movement of the rear of the car. Although it is possible that the negative camber is the cause of this, I have never read anything (by Pedders or anyone else on this forum) that would suggest that negative camber would cause what I am experiencing. I did notice the markings on the underside of the chassis where the cradle bushings touch the frame but according to Pedders that is normal. I am truly frustrated over this and would not describe this as a floaty feeling that one would get from too soft suspension, this is something different entirely. those who experience it know what im talking about. its downright dangerous bc the rear of the car becomes disconnected momentarily.

Posted via LXFMobile

[Shane B]

I have eibach pro kit springs and stock shocks with 19,000 miles and Ive noticed the same thing over certain spots in the road. there is a certain stretch of freeway around me that the car does it every time.feels like the car is almost hydroplaning in the rear. the first time It happened it scared my wife pretty good.Ive had 2 alignments done since the springs were installed. not the cradle shift alignment though. guess I will look into that.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

just a note to those looking to go with Pedders, Tonight is the last night of the sale, so if you want to save yourself some money you will want to buy it tonight

[fireman2118]

You should try new dampers.

[OLJustice]

I have eibach pro kit springs and stock shocks with 19,000 miles and Ive noticed the same thing over certain spots in the road. there is a certain stretch of freeway around me that the car does it every time.feels like the car is almost hydroplaning in the rear. the first time It happened it scared my wife pretty good.Ive had 2 alignments done since the springs were installed. not the cradle shift alignment though. guess I will look into that.

Yes, yes, yes. This is a good analogy. I am glad people are coming out of the woodwork with this same issue so now its not like I'm the only guy on the forums experiencing this very strange behavior. I just drove 100 miles today to a New Years Eve party and it seems to be getting even worse. Large bumps are what seem to do it the most. Its a left/right wiggling of the car-a 'stepping out' to the left/right that it will do until it settles from the initial 'shock' of the bump. Left, then right, then left, then right... etc. until it eventually settles. It happens quick-lasts no longer than 2-3 seconds but while its happening its extremely dangerous. Its like the rear is disconnected from the front doing its own thing. I wish I could articulate it better. Almost as if the wheels are staying planted but the chassis is swaying left and right. very very weird. I almost wish I could find a bad bushing or something bent... some sign of something wrong.... Even a full Pedders inspection yielded no suspicious components.


just a note to those looking to go with Pedders, Tonight is the last night of the sale, so if you want to save yourself some money you will want to buy it tonight

Noted. Prices were good so I hope anyone looking to Pedders took advantage of this. But in my situation as you mentioned, to blindly buy just the rear cradle bushes in hopes that this would fix my issue would be foolish in my part. Its a system and all rear bushes would be needed. Unfortunately I simply can't afford that now, ESPECIALLY installation, which from what I've heard is damn near the cost of the parts.... considering the work involved.


You should try new dampers.

Again, I can't stress enough that I am very familiar with the floaty feeling that stock 5.7 suspension has and this is a completely different issue. In fact it was this floaty, soft, mushy feeling which caused me to purchase a set of SRT takeoff suspension. Unfortunately I haven't been able to enjoy it b/c of this problem. Between the stepping out and the crown sensitiviy, I haven't truly enjoyed my Charger in months....

If anyone else is experiencing this issue, I urge them to come forward in this thread. While I'm sure a complete rear end bushing replacement from Pedders will fix this issue, Its about time we pinpointed definitively what components are causing this and perhaps formulate some definitive parts that would fix this when replaced.

[Cam]

Hey bud, something to consider. When you gain neg camber, that creates neg toe. So the lower you go, the more neg camber, the more neg toe. Well with too much neg toe, it'll make it a real battle keeping the car in a straight line. Have you noticed that when you corner hard, it grabs and turns you tighter then normal?????. Could be (I'm not certain, never tried it) that the rear cradles could not only be adjusted side to side but fore and aft. And of that's the case, you could relieve some of the neg toe by moving it forward.

[momad]

I've got an 05 Mag with an Eibach ProKit and their ProDampers (shocks) and an 06 Charger with just the ProKit and stock shocks, and while my Magnum does handle better than the Charger as far as cornering and overall drivablility...both cars do exactly what you are discribing around serveral different turns with somewhat sharp bumps on the interstate. It is definitely not a shock issue. I've always assumed it was the sloppy rear suspension bushings allowing the rearend to shift quickly and then the weight of the car slams back into it causing the tire to check up and briefly lose contact with the road. I had a similar problem with a Chevy P/U that I installed a Corvette C-4 IRS in. It too was al over the road until a bushing change. I will eventually change all the bushing and would guess that it would correct the problem.

BTW- it happens in my wifes Charger before the lowered springs.

I don't know if this helps...but I feel your pain.

[OLJustice]

I got such great responses and help from the members here on this problem that I thought I might share my solution:

A complete SRT rear dropout including crossmember (had one already in storage but I just bought the carrier)
SRT rack & PS pump (replacing my upgraded daytona rack)
2 new tension struts up front
1 - pedders bumpsteer kit (to be ordered)

Overkill? Yes? But if ya think about it... with 6-8 alignments done last year alone not to mention hundreds paid in warranty deductibles for all the unsuccessful dealer replacements, you begin to see how basically swapping out the entire underside of the car begins to look better and better. Unfortunately all this puts me back financially even worse than before so I am still sitting on a 6.1L longblock that i can't afford to have installed or stored for much longer....

Thanks to all again for the help. I will follow up once everything is installed but honestly with a replacement this drastic, I don't anticipate any problems anymore... lol :)