Pedders or Racer Edge Bump Steer Kit. Which is better and why?

[Gentile Giant]

I'm installing Hotchkiss bars and Eiback Springs on my MRT. I already have bump steer issues which are only going to get worse. So while it's up in the air a bump steer kit is only logical. However.... This is apparently fixed by using two different methods based on two different theories.
Pedders uses offset bushings while Racers Edge changes the angle of the Rods.
Both these vendors are class acts and I appreciate thier efforts in our market. I don't want to make this a pissing contest either!
RE's product is the newest kid on the block and I haven't seen any feedback on thier product. Pedders has had mixed reviews but I can attribute it to a "Chebbie" dealer not knowing anything about LX's.
What is your experiance guys?

[Pale Rider]

I'd like to hear more about the RE setup, haven't seen someone comment on them yet.

I have the Pedders, but I can see that possibly the Razors is going to move the angle of the tie rod more than Pedders does.

btw, Pedders claims to not need MORE angle change. That may be true with a very mild drop, (like mine, with SRT stuff), but I just have a hard time buying that for people using coilovers or bags, and having more drop than an SRT or Pedders ride height.

Oh, just to be clear, you mention....
"Pedders uses offset bushings while Racers Edge changes the angle of the Rods. "
They both change the angle of the rods, they just achieve that differently.

[MikeEast]

I've only had experiences with the Pedders version, but I must say that it makes a huge huge difference in how my RT steers - feels way better.

Mike

[crhemi]

I am in the market for one or the other.

[momad]

I'm leaning towards the Razors Edge set up because my tie rods ends are shot anyway. I would like to hear from someone using them b4 I buy them though......

[Gentile Giant]

I've only had experiences with the Pedders version, but I must say that it makes a huge huge difference in how my RT steers - feels way better.

Mike
Hey Mike, Is your RT lowered????

[Gentile Giant]

:doh: Bueler.............Bueler............

[OLJustice]

Yeah I can't think of one person on the forums who have the RazorEdge setup. But to be honest I can see how their method can adjust the angle of the tierods signifcantly more than a simple bushing offset that Pedders users. I'm curious to hear from someone who has these installed (other than RE) since I am strongly considering Pedders' Touring package.

[Ron380]

I haven't seen or heard anything regarding the new RE piece either... I DO have their Front and Rear Shock Braces and they're VERY good quality! :mrgreen:

I have the Pedder's Touring Package (+ the Rear Tie Rod End Links) and LOVE it!! :thumbs_u:

[dudeiwin86]

the issue is 2 things

1- no one has really tried the RE setup that ive seen
2- the pedders setup is 2 bushings in teh steering rack, the RE setup i belive is at the sway endlinks? so its like.. 2 different approaches to the same problem..

from the looks of the RE piece, you could use it in combination with the pedders bushings. they go in very different locations

[momad]

They have sway links as well, but their bump steer kit replaces the tie rod ends...... ??????? Sway links would not effect the toe.

[dudeiwin86]

They have sway links as well, but their bump steer kit replaces the tie rod ends...... ??????? Sway links would not effect the toe.

ok sure, tie rod ends.
its still not the bushings in the steering rack like the pedders kit

[MikeEast]

Hey Mike, Is your RT lowered????I told Pete that I wanted it to sit as low as it did with the Eibach Prokits and that pretty much where it sits now. I got in on the Pedders May Madness springs-n-shocks sale they did.

It's pretty low, I had to take the wheels off my jack to get it underneath the car...

Mike

[MattRobertson]

My Pedders kit eliminated my bump steer, which was very noticeable and extremely annoying.

I would think adjustable tie rod ends would be useful too, yes? As in why not use both for a more comprehensive suspension rework? Probably unnecessary unless you are getting serious with the car though.

[Gentile Giant]

My thinking is that the tie rods are crap anyway so I'm killing 2 birds. However the stock bushings aren't any better either!
I just got off the phone with RE and the guy that knows ( Mike) is at the SEMA show. However the tech (installer) I spoke with said using both systems should work even better. I think I'll wait and call Mike on Monday about that one!
Either way, I've decided to be the Guinea Pig ( yes I'm a fat Italian ) for the Forum and start with the RE product. It'll be at least a couple of weeks before any of this happens but I'll keep you posted.
We'll still need input on this subject guys, don't let the thread die!

[SMosher]

I use and have their bump steer kit on my car. Works like a champ. the Pedders solution is also a great enhancement from what I've heard. I will be researching their product soon once SEMA is over with.

[dms motorsport]

Our Pedders EP2113 and EP2113a (AWD) has worked perfectly and with several hundred installed out there, has been proven to work just fine, no matter what level your drop is as long as it is streetable.

We do not market our bump steer for this, but have been told by many including MEISTER that the transmission of vibrations thru the column is way down. This is another advantage that our urethane has over the soft non compliant rubber.

We are priced very well for this upgrade, and it is easy to install.

We have posted the before and after graphs for all to see and the community has proven us to be right on our outcome

thanks
mike
dms

[dream warrior]

mike i've just ordered the bump steer kit from pedders but since i'm from belgium i could'nt
let the select-state option out so in my order is ALASKA included
will this affect my order?

[SMosher]

Our Pedders EP2113 and EP2113a (AWD) has worked perfectly and with several hundred installed out there, has been proven to work just fine, no matter what level your drop is as long as it is streetable.

We do not market our bump steer for this, but have been told by many including MEISTER that the transmission of vibrations thru the column is way down. This is another advantage that our urethane has over the soft non compliant rubber.

We are priced very well for this upgrade, and it is easy to install.

We have posted the before and after graphs for all to see and the community has proven us to be right on our outcome

thanks
mike
dms


I had a chance today to look at the bushing that the Pedders bump steer kit fixes and the stock crap was very soft. The car has under 8000 miles on it.

You have my numbers Mike. We gota sit down and bs some night over dinner.

[dms motorsport]

mike i've just ordered the bump steer kit from pedders but since i'm from belgium i could'nt
let the select-state option out so in my order is ALASKA included
will this affect my order?

You should email Deb at
ar@peddersusa.com and explain the situation. She will resolve it for you

thanks
mike

dms

[sidetrack]

I have the Pedders bumpsteer kit and unfortunately I didn't notice any change/improvement.

I have a Chrysler extended warranty and most likely I will have to replace my steering rack/inner tie rods. The Pedders bumpsteer kit has likely voided my extended warranty on the rack and inner tie rods.
As soon as the dealer inspects or uninstalls the rack they will see the red bushings which will give them all the ammo they need to void my warranty.
Yeh, I know the Pedders bushings have nothing to do with a failing rack/inner tie rod, but winning this battle with a dealer will be tough IMO.

The razor edge kit is less likely to void the inner-tie-rod/rack warranty.

[SMosher]

I have the Pedders bumpsteer kit and unfortunately I didn't notice any change/improvement.

I have a Chrysler extended warranty and most likely I will have to replace my steering rack/inner tie rods. The Pedders bumpsteer kit has likely voided my extended warranty on the rack and inner tie rods.
As soon as the dealer inspects or uninstalls the rack they will see the red bushings which will give them all the ammo they need to void my warranty.
Yeh, I know the Pedders bushings have nothing to do with a failing rack/inner tie rod, but winning this battle with a dealer will be tough IMO.

The razor edge kit is less likely to void the inner-tie-rod/rack warranty.


That is a wild situation. THere must be some way to explain to them whats going on or maybe a phone call from Pedders? Just a reach for something positive.

[dms motorsport]

I have the Pedders bumpsteer kit and unfortunately I didn't notice any change/improvement.

I have a Chrysler extended warranty and most likely I will have to replace my steering rack/inner tie rods. The Pedders bumpsteer kit has likely voided my extended warranty on the rack and inner tie rods.
As soon as the dealer inspects or uninstalls the rack they will see the red bushings which will give them all the ammo they need to void my warranty.
Yeh, I know the Pedders bushings have nothing to do with a failing rack/inner tie rod, but winning this battle with a dealer will be tough IMO.

The razor edge kit is less likely to void the inner-tie-rod/rack warranty.

You should not lay down to a defeatest mode here. Granted there are stupid dealers that if you put a CAI intake on, they will void your entire warranty, which is, by the way totally illegal by the Magnesson Moss Act.

One thing you can do is to talk to the service manager first and give him a heads up, and explain the reason why you installed it. We can give you technical info to support you if you need it. If the dealership would deny the claim for the bushing, they would also deny it due to the "odd looking tie rods"

One thing you can do is not use the dealership. You are not obligated to use the Chyrsler dealership. But whatever repair facility you use must go thru multiple phone calls, and a fax or 2 and wait 24 hours for a credit card payment.

but talk to the service manager first. They will be less prone to denying you an extended warranty job like this than a warranty job like this, because ALL the domestic manufacturer, put what can be explained as "EXTREME PRESSURE" to lower warranty costs. Extended warranty is viewed quite differently.

So if you need technical info, to support you, you can contact your dealer you purchased the bushings from, and they can get you all that you would require. Also, keep in mind there are multiple Chrysler dealers that are installing these parts to help repair the toe wear issues the LX has.

thanks
mike
dms

[Gentile Giant]

Just got off the phone with Mike from Razors Edge. I ordered the bump steer kit and front and rear adjustable sway bar links. I think that lowering the car with stock links is going to pre-load the sway bars. ( I'm squirrely enough as it is, I don't need the car helping! ) He gave me a great deal!Parts should be installed by the end of next week! I'll get some pics if I can.
Mike also told me about some great new products coming out real soon that we are all going to want BUT I'll let him tell it to you guys.
shhhhhhhh........It's a secret.

[MAGFX]

Congrats on your new purchases!

When a car is lowered (the same from side to side which is the norm), it does not preload the anti sway bar. A "sway bar" only is loaded when one side is moved up or down in relation to the other side, like when you take a turn and the body (chassis) rolls.

[SMosher]

Just got off the phone with Mike from Razors Edge. I ordered the bump steer kit and front and rear adjustable sway bar links. I think that lowering the car with stock links is going to pre-load the sway bars. ( I'm squirrely enough as it is, I don't need the car helping! ) He gave me a great deal!Parts should be installed by the end of next week! I'll get some pics if I can.
Mike also told me about some great new products coming out real soon that we are all going to want BUT I'll let him tell it to you guys.
shhhhhhhh........It's a secret.


Same setup I've had on my car for sometime. Congrats on being Razord!

[daveaz]

I have the Pedders bumpsteer kit and unfortunately I didn't notice any change/improvement.

I have a Chrysler extended warranty and most likely I will have to replace my steering rack/inner tie rods. The Pedders bumpsteer kit has likely voided my extended warranty on the rack and inner tie rods.
As soon as the dealer inspects or uninstalls the rack they will see the red bushings which will give them all the ammo they need to void my warranty.
Yeh, I know the Pedders bushings have nothing to do with a failing rack/inner tie rod, but winning this battle with a dealer will be tough IMO.

The razor edge kit is less likely to void the inner-tie-rod/rack warranty.



I went in for some work at my dealer's service dept. and had an alignment done. On the paperwork, the tech had noted this " customer has a lowering kit causing neagative camber, rec. setting back to factory. I think that means that my KW's have voided any warrantry issue i might have with the suspension lol.

[Hemissary]

As MAGFX points out, simply lowering the LX platform equally (given the limitations of this vehicle's vertical movement capability) will not adversely affect lateral movement and therefore handling.
However when the unsprung mounting points (active/moving suspension bits) is significantly lower or higher than the sprung-mounting positions (frame mount), this can reduce or enhance squat independently while entering a turn.

In a turn, a raised unsprung position (frame mounts significantly lower than endlink mounts) will reduce vertical movement (downward) on the outside fender where the opposite occurs on the inside. Essentially the entire front end can be designed to lift (equally side-to-side) at the apex under acceleration enhancing weight bias on the rears. Or for that matter reverse the scenario to increase front bite.

On our LX vehicles, we do not have enough difference at either stock or lowered positions for the above to have any measureable affect...

Just got off the phone with Mike from Razors Edge. I ordered the bump steer kit and front and rear adjustable sway bar links. I think that lowering the car with stock links is going to pre-load the sway bars. ( I'm squirrely enough as it is, I don't need the car helping! ) He gave me a great deal!Parts should be installed by the end of next week! I'll get some pics if I can.
Mike also told me about some great new products coming out real soon that we are all going to want BUT I'll let him tell it to you guys.
shhhhhhhh........It's a secret.

[crhemi]

I went in for some work at my dealer's service dept. and had an alignment done. On the paperwork, the tech had noted this " customer has a lowering kit causing neagative camber, rec. setting back to factory. I think that means that my KW's have voided any warrantry issue i might have with the suspension lol.
I believe you can raise you car back to stock hight with your KW's.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Both solutions will work, and I'm sure that Razor's Edge products are very good, I hope to see some of them at some point myself.

The Pedders bushings are a different solution to the problem, but are also non adjustable, so you do not have to worry about where they should be adjusted, in addition to the reports from people that have installed the kit helping with vibrations.

I have the Pedders kit for $81 on my SRT8 and it works very well.

I will have the car this Friday at the shop if anyone would like to come down for a ride.

[dream warrior]

You should email Deb at
ar@peddersusa.com and explain the situation. She will resolve it for you

thanks
mike

dms

thanx mike i got a mail from deb allready i can't waith to put on this mod

[Gentile Giant]

My parts from Razors Edge arrived today!! Doesn't look like they'll be installed till sometime after Thanksgiving. :(

A couple of observations:
1. Parts are high quality ( as we already know )
2. Service and shipping were spot on.
3. The instructions on the bump steer kit are quite lengthy. If the guy on the
alignment rack is not an enthusiast or is doing piece work, he might not want to
spend the extra time to get it perfect!
On the other hand since it is not the same old same old he may take it as a
challenge to get it right. Who knows?

I'll keep ya'll posted.

[dms motorsport]

So lets check things out. To start, I will tell all that I think Razor;s Edge is a VERY fine quality company. PERIOD, and as far as I can tell offer very good customer service. So if you need tie rod ends they are the way to go.

Here is their system installed:
http://forums.peddersusa.com/imagehosting/7491e19df3182a.jpg

the cost, I believe is almost $180. I have as of yet seen any data showing how much their units change bump steer, but I assume it is comparable to ours. With that said, here is our solution:

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imagehosting/7491e1bfda2018.jpg
EP2113 LX Bump Steer Correction Kit $81.56 (2WD)
EP2113A AWD LX Bump Steer Correction Kit (3 BUSH KIT) $122.34 Takes about 1 hour or so to put in. It takes as long to remove the plastic shieldings to access the gear as it takes to install the bushings. You use a universal ball joint press to remove. The OEM bushes pop out very easily. A side benefit is the isolation of road vibrations. This is what a large amount of people have told us.
Not seeing the installation process of the tie rod ends, I do not know what the labor costs will be.

So now this great community as 2 options to resolve the # 1 problem with tire wear for the LX. Too bad the 2009 LX product has not addressed this problem. Having 13mm or so of bump steer (nearly 1/2 inch of toe change) is a serious and ridiculous amount of toe change.

Everyone should figure out the cost of replacing tires; either 2 or 4, your choice. Then figure out that on some of the LXs nearly 50% tread life loss can occur due to excess toe and toe change. So if you figure 2 tires at $100 each, install at $25, that will give you a cost of $225 plus taxes and disposal for equal quality OEM tires (I might be low on the tire costs so forgive me if they are not accurate) So take 50% of the costs, which is $113. By spending say $167 plus toe set, you can save $113 on the first set of tires, and double that on the second set of tires. So the actual cost will be only $54 plus toe set.

Now one thing you can negotiate with your alignment shops, is if you bring your LX in there, they will normally charge you for a full 4 wheel alignment. BUT you cannot do a 4 wheel alignment on a LX because, there is no camber or caster adjustments front or rear; just a toe set front and rear. The alignment should be about 50% of a normal 4 wheel alignment.

Hope this helps
thanks
mike
dms

[fast fred]

yea i also have the RAZORS EDGE bump steer kit and the adjustable end links for my plum crazy to install, but last week when Steve went to install the stuff the end links they would not fit past the rotors,so Steve (SMosher)said he is going look into it and find out whats up....

[Gentile Giant]

Wow!!! Though I appreciate all the Pedders dealers chiming in, we already know your products work! I too applaud you guys for not turning this thread into a pissing contest! (I'm in business too and know what it's like to have a new kid on the block!)
In stead of using this thread for some free marketing, how 'bout a group buy on your bushings. That'll get you attention! :wink:

My purpose here is to get some hands on with Razors Edge for our LX community to have some options. Like I said : Two different theories with two different solutions to one common problem.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

You asked for opinions and info, and that's what you received. Mike posted 10 days after your original post, and provided more info that had been given, as well as only saying good things about their product.

I think it Razors Edge had posted you would not have posted your last comment.

Bottom line, Pedders is part of the community, as well as a vendor.

If you wanted a post that compared Pedders and Razors Edge, but then don't allow Pedders to post, then your just asking for people to give Razors Edge props for being a good business, but that wasn't how you posted it.

Thanks for your time.

[BigHemi06]

I would buy from both companies...I dont have any special interest with one or the other....also I have been watching this thread as for the fact that my car is lowered and I would like to make the proper upgrades to get the best out of it as well as not spending a ton of money.....

I have to agree with Rob he didnt post anything bad....he didnt say anything bad about anyones product or customer service.....The title of this thread is PEDDERS OR RASORS EDGE WHICH IS BETTER AND WHY.....all Rob did was talk a little about his kit...and Im sure someone from Rasor's Edge will chime in about the functions of there kit....there wasnt any bashing so no reason to try and sir the pot so to speak....

This goes out to both companies...I have a charger RT...its lowered 2 inches buy lower springs still has the stock shocks....how much am I looking at to correct the issues that occur from lowering a car and what all is needed....keep in mind will be looking at going to a coilover setup when the shocks are shot.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Either kit will work equally as well as the other, the differences in the suspensions will not really effect which one you buy very much.

[Gentile Giant]

Whoa...I didn't expect that!
In my original post I said:
Both these vendors are class acts and I appreciate their efforts in our market.
and.....
What is your experience guys?

We already know what their theories are. I was looking for their customers input.
However, since I was not all that clear I'll take it like a man.
Rob and the guys at DMS I apologize. We are all passionate about what we do and your input is vital in our decisions. Thank You.

now...... how 'bout that group buy! :wink:

[PerfRacer]

Rob, I'm going to order one of your Bump Steer Correction kits (and thinking about a Radius rod kit), just one question, though; does the car need a re-alignment after the install of the kit, or kits (bump steer and radius rod)? I ask because my car just got a new steering rack with tie rods, front dampers, and an alignment. Thanks.

[dms motorsport]

Wow!!! Though I appreciate all the Pedders dealers chiming in, we already know your products work! I too applaud you guys for not turning this thread into a pissing contest! (I'm in business too and know what it's like to have a new kid on the block!)
In stead of using this thread for some free marketing, how 'bout a group buy on your bushings. That'll get you attention! :wink:

My purpose here is to get some hands on with Razors Edge for our LX community to have some options. Like I said : Two different theories with two different solutions to one common problem.

Unless you have damaged outer tie rod ends, I see no reason to spend the $100 more over the Pedders solution. The theories are not different, they are the same. The approach is different. The idea is to get the toe ends to be more in line with the steering gear. Our Pedders system works very well at all heights. I.E. Matt Robertson has one of the lowest Magnums for the street/track. Granted there will be lower vehicles for those with air suspension. But if they are much lower than Matts, bump steer will be the least of your concerns.

Our bushing works and works extremely well. It does sound like there will be some potential issues on install based on the one post describing Smosher's inability to get the tie rod ends to work.

Our Pedders parts, when properly installed, have exceeded all promises. Our Pedders organization is fully accessible to this great community. I personally have helped a significant amount of LX owners across this great country of ours, knowing I am not selling them any product. That is just my caring for safety, and helping! We have brought to the attention quite a few issues with the LX, that we were challenged as being a bunch of crap by many. Turns out, everything we have said, has proven time and time again, to be 100% accurate.

We will continue to bring to this market new and exciting upgrades. Check out my post on the upper rear control arm. I will also tell you we will be offering the most technically superior strut with value, known to this community next year. This is our committment to this community and look forward to our Pedders Days, and meeting and seeing all the LX family and their fantastic, creative rides.

And by the way, I do not see any other manufacturers on this thread.

To insinuate, and correct me if I am wrong, that the only purpose of our posting on this informational thread is "free marketing" you really do not understand who we are at all!!. Plus, you brought up the thread, requesting info. So who better to give info on Pedders than us? The information that I have posted is 100% accurate, and is designed to give this community information to assist them in choices. I think it would also be great for Razor's Edge to be here, and discuss more thoroughly their product as well. This is one of the great values of forums.
thanks again to all

mike
dms

[Rob@WretchedMS]

yes it will need an alignment, not an option when you do it.

Giant, don't take my post as an attack, it kind of reads like that a bit i guess, just pointing out things. it's all good

[sidetrack]

Rob, I'm going to order one of your Bump Steer Correction kits (and thinking about a Radius rod kit), just one question, though; does the car need a re-alignment after the install of the kit, or kits (bump steer and radius rod)? I ask because my car just got a new steering rack with tie rods, front dampers, and an alignment. Thanks.

In theory the car is supposed to need a toe alignment. But mine didn't.

After the dealer installed my Pedders kit they checked the alignment and it was within spec. The Before and Actual toe numbers were identical, and within spec.

[SMosher]

yes it will need an alignment, not an option when you do it.

Giant, don't take my post as an attack, it kind of reads like that a bit i guess, just pointing out things. it's all good

It did read as one. But hey who am I to judge :)

[Rob@WretchedMS]

It did read as one. But hey who am I to judge :)
lol, ya i read it and thought i sounded like a prick, i'm not ....really.....honest.

[OLJustice]

I'm looking for ways to drive down the price of what I was quoted after my inspection - quick question. I know the bumpsteer kit is necessary since my bumpsteer is so bad I get it while driving in a straight line now, but are the upper and lower control arm bushings really needed especially if mine are already good? What about just bumpsteer, tension strut, & front strut mount bushes?

[SMosher]

lol, ya i read it and thought i sounded like a prick, i'm not ....really.....honest.

We met before. I know. :)

[dms motorsport]

Whoa...I didn't expect that!
In my original post I said:
Both these vendors are class acts and I appreciate their efforts in our market.
and.....
What is your experience guys?

We already know what their theories are. I was looking for their customers input.
However, since I was not all that clear I'll take it like a man.
Rob and the guys at DMS I apologize. We are all passionate about what we do and your input is vital in our decisions. Thank You.

now...... how 'bout that group buy! :wink:

I do not know why you are apologizing. This has been a great, informative thread. Razor's Edge is a fine company. We just have 2 approaches. Nothing wrong with choices here. I would be great to complete this thread with a detailed instruction on how their tie rod ends are installed and adjustment procedures. It would also be interesting to find out what the snafus are that Smosher experienced. Also to find out the post-bump steer of the tie rod assemblies.

thanks for making this thread. It has been educational, civil, and fun to be a part of.

In terms of discussing bump steer, there are still lots that do not understand it. Since we came on the forum, we have been discussing it quite a but, and now with tons of LXs with the EP2113 kit installed, there has bee a large amount of very positive reviews, with secondary positive benefits.

An informed community, is a happy community!

mike
dms

[dms motorsport]

One of the areas that I would need some thought about using a joint like the Razors Edge joint, is debri and corrosion. there are major parts of the USA where salt is used. Deposits on the ball can create long term durability concerns. GM uses a joint like this in the Zeta platforms for the upper rear control arm. But it is environmentally sealed. Race cars use joints like this, but they are not subject to corrossions of daily drivers. Plus race cars, these types of joints are replaced quite regularly.

So another question for them his how their joint will deal with corrosion, and lubrication in the joint.

mike

[SMosher]

I want to make it very clear I didnt have any issues installing the bumpsteer kit. I had issues on another portion of my install. I want that to be known.

I as well find this thread full of data and alot to take home. I feel its a great world when 2 companies can converge on a 'new mouse trap' plan.

[Gentile Giant]

Mike,
The lube and cleanness issues was the first thing I brought up too. Now that I'm holding this piece I can see the ball is similar to the shaft on a hydraulic cylinder so corrosion will be more difficult. There also seems to be a wiper of sorts incorporated into this unit. Like I said, I'll be the Ginnie Pig. It will be interesting but then I liked Quadrophonic stereo, BetaMax and now BlueRay! :)

[dms motorsport]

Mike,
The lube and cleanness issues was the first thing I brought up too. Now that I'm holding this piece I can see the ball is similar to the shaft on a hydraulic cylinder so corrosion will be more difficult. There also seems to be a wiper of sorts incorporated into this unit. Like I said, I'll be the Ginnie Pig. It will be interesting but then I liked Quadrophonic stereo, BetaMax and now BlueRay! :)

You da man!

Did they give you any maintenance things to do? I would think it might be good, at least during some winter months to spray the joint. Aluminum will put and corrode with salt exposure. this is not good for an active joint like this. However, that fact that it is so active, amy be to their advantage to keep it clean.

thanks for sharing
mike
dms

[OLJustice]

You da man!

Did they give you any maintenance things to do? I would think it might be good, at least during some winter months to spray the joint. Aluminum will put and corrode with salt exposure. this is not good for an active joint like this. However, that fact that it is so active, amy be to their advantage to keep it clean.

thanks for sharing
mike
dms


lol... And that, my friends, is what us 'urban folk' would refer to as "dry snitching". Those of you 'in the know' know exactly what I'm talking about ;)

[dms motorsport]

lol... And that, my friends, is what us 'urban folk' would refer to as "dry snitching". Those of you 'in the know' know exactly what I'm talking about ;)

I have not heard that term in a very long time!

mike
dms

[ChagaRT]

what does it take to install the razor bumpsteer kit?

[TALON]

My parts from Razors Edge arrived today!! Doesn't look like they'll be installed till sometime after Thanksgiving.

I'll keep ya'll posted.

Do you have a update for us??

Ken

[Gentile Giant]

The car goes in the shop this week. Life has a way of changing plans!

[TALON]

No problem, Thanks bro.

Ken

[Gentile Giant]

Update: My dealer bumped me out another week. Says they are too busy with major projects. Rebuilding engines, trans ect. WTF!!!! I waited a week and a half already! I can't imagine that Chrysler products are that bad. Maybe the economy trickled down to fix what you've got. The service manager is a new guy (old guy was a rodder and was up for anything) He wants pictures of the of the kit. I'll see him this morning and walk him thru it.

[DodgeDude99]

the RE kits just appears to be Heims joints (correct me if i am wrong, but i am in no way bashing their products and any others here). if they are a decent joint i wouldnt worry about corrsion and such since they are pretty much self cleaning.
the one lift i HAD on my Ram used heims and the track bar also uses heims. after those i would NEVER run heims again, they wear way to quickly. the track bar heims i was replacing every 6 months, i went with pretty much every brand that Summit carried, and all after a few months had slop in it. now before you say it was a big truck with big tires on a small joint, yeah maybe, but the track bar was a decent sized joint, and the heims for the 4 link were huge (skyjacker double flex if you are familiar) and the threaded portion was like 1.5".

i have even had similar findings on a 4 link that i had on a juiced nissan kingcab.

maybe better TRE's and better bushings to fix the bumpsteer. but my experience with bumpsteer has always been on 4x4s and was always caused by sh!tty steering geometry, which i have never paid attention to on the LX's, if the TRE is angled or not inline with the rack could cause bumpsteer as well.

[dms motorsport]

the RE kits just appears to be Heims joints (correct me if i am wrong, but i am in no way bashing their products and any others here). if they are a decent joint i wouldnt worry about corrsion and such since they are pretty much self cleaning.
the one lift i HAD on my Ram used heims and the track bar also uses heims. after those i would NEVER run heims again, they wear way to quickly. the track bar heims i was replacing every 6 months, i went with pretty much every brand that Summit carried, and all after a few months had slop in it. now before you say it was a big truck with big tires on a small joint, yeah maybe, but the track bar was a decent sized joint, and the heims for the 4 link were huge (skyjacker double flex if you are familiar) and the threaded portion was like 1.5".

i have even had similar findings on a 4 link that i had on a juiced nissan kingcab.

maybe better TRE's and better bushings to fix the bumpsteer. but my experience with bumpsteer has always been on 4x4s and was always caused by sh!tty steering geometry, which i have never paid attention to on the LX's, if the TRE is angled or not inline with the rack could cause bumpsteer as well.

Our graphs that we have published I believe shows our bump steer going from 13-15mm to about 2-3mm or so. Recently I just did a local training on a SRT8 LX product and set it up fairly aggressively. I have found the best align guy I have ever met. We chatted a significant amount. He sets up lots of race cars. So he checked the bump steer on the TrackII we just finished, and it had 0 bump steer. I was happy!

I do not know why he measured 0 and our graph shows 2mm or so, other than our graph shows more travel than we could simulate without a come-a-long. but in any event, it worked well.

All LX products have excessive bump steer!. Either way you fix it, you should

mike
dms

[DodgeDude99]

like i said, i dont remember if the rack is inline with the TREs or not, but correct me if i am wrong (that was alot of pictures to looks thru) it seems like your kit essentially adjusts the rack up or down to get everything inline, and by doing so the geometry is corrected and therefor the wheel isnt sawing back and forth in your hands as you go across train tracks, washboard road, etc etc.
how hard are these bushings to press in and out of the rack?

[dms motorsport]

like i said, i dont remember if the rack is inline with the TREs or not, but correct me if i am wrong (that was alot of pictures to looks thru) it seems like your kit essentially adjusts the rack up or down to get everything inline, and by doing so the geometry is corrected and therefor the wheel isnt sawing back and forth in your hands as you go across train tracks, washboard road, etc etc.
how hard are these bushings to press in and out of the rack?

You are correct, our bushing lifts the steering gear to fix the geometry. The bushings are really easy to remove. We use a balljoint press and they pop out easily

mike
dms

[SMosher]

Hey Mike ...

What are you doing this weekend? :)

[dms motorsport]

Hey Mike ...

What are you doing this weekend? :)

Whats happening?

Not sure about this weekend. Wifey usually plans the activities and she is in Yosemite with her sisters. So what is up?

mike
dms

[Gentile Giant]

If I believed in Carma, Stars aligning, Horoscopes or Shamans, I would have to commit suicide!!!!

I met with my new service manager last week to show him the kit and to allay any of his fears since he sounded alittle confused. I'm pretty sure I spoke in English but he acted as though I was from Mars. When I said we'll want to check the alignment after the install, he wanted to know how since it's an aftermarket part. I think a qualification to be a service manager is to have at least some mechanical skills along with some people skills isn't it???

Once in a blue moon you meet someone you just can't get along with and you know immediately! Did we have 2 full moons this month? OK fine, I'll leave my car so he could take car of a laundry list of problems and I'll do it myself after that. That's when he said TSB's ????? That's when I walked out thinking is it my breath or deodorant or is this guy really an idiot. Now I'm afraid to even leave the car with him!!!

Then I get a call that my 23 year old niece had passed away which filled the rest of the week for me. Tragic but not unexpected.

Now I'm waiting for a PM from Bornagainultimatum. He uses a dealer which is out of state for both of us but a couple of the mechanics there work for HHP also.

DodgeDude99, I have the same concerns a you with the joints. IF I can ever get them on, my plan is to report on how long they survive.

Maybe this Carma thing is for real????

[dms motorsport]

If I believed in Carma, Stars aligning, Horoscopes or Shamans, I would have to commit suicide!!!!

I met with my new service manager last week to show him the kit and to allay any of his fears since he sounded alittle confused. I'm pretty sure I spoke in English but he acted as though I was from Mars. When I said we'll want to check the alignment after the install, he wanted to know how since it's an aftermarket part. I think a qualification to be a service manager is to have at least some mechanical skills along with some people skills isn't it???

Once in a blue moon you meet someone you just can't get along with and you know immediately! Did we have 2 full moons this month? OK fine, I'll leave my car so he could take car of a laundry list of problems and I'll do it myself after that. That's when he said TSB's ????? That's when I walked out thinking is it my breath or deodorant or is this guy really an idiot. Now I'm afraid to even leave the car with him!!!

Then I get a call that my 23 year old niece had passed away which filled the rest of the week for me. Tragic but not unexpected.

Now I'm waiting for a PM from Bornagainultimatum. He uses a dealer which is out of state for both of us but a couple of the mechanics there work for HHP also.

DodgeDude99, I have the same concerns a you with the joints. IF I can ever get them on, my plan is to report on how long they survive.

Maybe this Carma thing is for real????

Wow, my condolences to you and your family. Loosing a family member is really a tough part of life!!

MIKE
DMS

[Hemi Mag]

After gleaning thru this, is GG the only independent person to have a set of these to get installed? Has anyone actually got some miles on these? I will be doing a SRT suspension swap into my R/T soon and my tie rods are getting ready to take a shyte on me again (16K miles on the set). I really would like to get some good mileage out of whatever I end up going with as getting this done once a year is annoying and expensive!

AC

[Gentile Giant]

Thanks Mike.

[ChagaRT]

We were going to install my Razor bumpsteer kit this weekend but didnt have the tools. As soon as we get on it i will post some pics. I have been 2 atleast 4-5 alignment shops that said they wont install and said they wont be able to align after i install it.

[05MagnumRT]

I have been 2 atleast 4-5 alignment shops that said they wont install and said they wont be able to align after i install it.

This is a concern - how many places will (or will refuse to) do an alignment if it has either kit in place?

[ChagaRT]

I just recently went to les schwab and they said no on the install and after he read the directions to align he said no. He recommended me to a body shop. They need to compress the suspension atleast 1 inch to adjust.

What we really need is for Razor edge to chime in and atleast speak on this a little to clear things up or give us a heads up on what to do.

[Ron380]

I'm not trying to take sides here, just stating my experience--

I had the Pedder's Bump Steer kit installed on my Charger (along with some other Pedder's parts) at Backstreet Performance. They did a terrific job and did the alignment right then and there as part of the install. They even insisted that I be in the car, or they have sandbags they use to simulate the driver's weight in the car, so that it would be aligned under "real world" conditions. :thumbs_u:

My Charger has been running straight and true since. :wink:

[dms motorsport]

Some always like the less traveled road!! LOL

to measure actual bump steer, the rebound rate is easy. But to get the jounce section, we use the swing jack on the align machine, and use a come-a-long to compress the suspension. It is not hard to do. The issue is that most alignment shops are "set the toe and let it go" kinds of shops. Many align guys do not even know what bump steer is.

So it is challenging to find a really good one.

The absolutely best align guy I have met in a very long time is Roger Kraus Racing in Castro Valley Ca. He truly knows his stuff. He did a SRT8 TrackII track setup for me. He questioned the crap out of me (I think to test my knowledge because he knows his stuff). We chatted about the bump steer issue. He actually checked the bump steer on the vehicle I brought over to him. The bump steer was so low, it was not detectable. So His check showed better than the one we have the graph on.

mike
dms