Nitrous bottle explosion.

[uglyman8]

Has anyone seen or heard of this happening????



http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117747.0 (http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117747.0)

This was a disaster! Post up please...I run 2 bottles in my MSRT8 and I dont want this to happen to me....

[ko4000]

Holy Smokes.. Someone would have died if they were in that car..

[lou1355]

My bottles have pressure relief valves that I presume would prevent this from happening.

Of course, I've never had them vent, so what do I know?

[Hemi Wagon]

Never seen any Sh!t like that happen unless McGayver was around

[eviltwin]

Properly maintained bottles with pressure relief valves will prevent this from happening.

Edit: in most cases.

[Super T]

Holy crap! Wow...
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/TTAWD/bradspics032.jpg

[ITsGOTaHEMI?]

I've seen Compressor's explode but Jebus H Christy!!!!!

That would not be fun. You know the insurance agent is going to be like, well we dont cover NO2 explosions.... Hope that guy has deep pockets:banghead:

[Hemi31]

Someone took off the burst disk........I have had a burst disc pop......startles you but thats it......vent the gas safely out of the car if your running a blow down like your supposed to.

[EXTREME]

wow, that guy lives in my county... time to investigate!

[1FST4DR]

Yup To cheap for the burst disk.Could have killed someone trying to save $13.00

[1SRT8-2NV]

Yeah Harrison County is not far I would be interested in finding out more about this case.

[Manny08]

Line of the day,

"It'll buff out..."

[blumagrt]

I don't know but that's a bit tuff to believe but I guess it could happen under the right circumstances. You know that those tanks are actually bullet proof.

[AtlantaSRT8]

All I got to say is DAMMMM

[sinistersix]

but what bottles dont have safety discs in them these days? I know the zex do, so hopefully something like this wouldnt happen

[JonzMgnm]

but what bottles dont have safety discs in them these days? I know the zex do, so hopefully something like this wouldnt happen

They can easily be removed or never installed at all.:doh:

Like Erik said, when installed correctly, the rupture disc will ....well, rupture, allowing the N20 to safely leave the over-pressurized bottle.

[scoot13]

I'm gonna stop drinking NOS energy drink, don't want that to happen to my body.

[Little Don]

I'm gonna stop drinking NOS energy drink, don't want that to happen to my body.

:friday:

My wife wanted to know what I was looking at. :doh: I had to ask her how her day was to get her away from the computer before she put two and two together. :blah: :panic:

[sinistersix]

They can easily be removed or never installed at all.:doh:

Like Erik said, when installed correctly, the rupture disc will ....well, rupture, allowing the N20 to safely leave the over-pressurized bottle.


dont they already come installed inside the bottle? Why would they be removed by someone?

[1FST4DR]

I don't know but that's a bit tuff to believe but I guess it could happen under the right circumstances. You know that those tanks are actually bullet proof.
What??I hope your kidding.....:roll:

[Gucci300C]

holy...... thats crazy lucky no one was in it never fear! it can be rebuilt! :)

[fnkychkn]

overfilled + no/defective pressure relief device + heat = boom!

i would hope these tanks require testing (and they should) like SCUBA tanks. they are pressurized to 5/3 of their working pressure and measured for metal stretch (hydrostatic test).

[1FST4DR]

overfilled + no/defective pressure relief device + heat = boom!

i would hope these tanks require testing (and they should) like SCUBA tanks. they are pressurized to 5/3 of their working pressure and measured for metal stretch (hydrostatic test).


They are actually stamped with a date on them.And yes they are supposed to get recertified or they shouldnt be refilled...

[CHARGERTREV]

Theres a guy on the "other" charger fourm that had a bottle go on his SRT-4......burnt it to the floor.

[1FST4DR]

Theres a guy on the "other" charger fourm that had a bottle go on his SRT-4......burnt it to the floor.

Then it wasn't caused by N20.N20 is not flamable...

[CHARGERTREV]

Then it wasn't caused by N20.N20 is not flamable...
Well the bottle blew up why he was walking his daughter to school(something like that) and he had pictures of his car BURNT so maybe something else caused the burn...but it was cooked I know that. Your a N2O man, Im just saying what I saw....this was like 2 years ago so I dont rember all the details.

[1FST4DR]

Well the bottle blew up why he was walking his daughter to school(something like that) and he had pictures of his car BURNT so maybe something else caused the burn...but it was cooked I know that. Your a N2O man, Im just saying what I saw....this was like 2 years ago so I dont rember all the details.


Sounds like the car caught fire,then heated the bottle ,then the bottle exploded,which fed the fire,because the N20 is a accelerent<--Spelling

Just a guess I have not seen the thread in question,but Im positive N20 isnt flamable.Just sharing some info with anyone who reads this thread.

[firetech]

Black bottle, under that great big glass green house in a black car ..... it probably would put the pressure through the roof. Add in a missing /damaged/modified safety valve ...... BOOM. Not really a fire and smoke kind of explosion, just a rapid expansion of the tanks contents, changing fron a liquid to a gas .... ahhh se when you explain it that way it doesn't sound so bad does it? Nitrous as I understand it is not a fuel, it is a catalyst that makes your fuel burn better/quicker. If it was dangerously flammable we'd have dentist offices going up in flames all over the place(thats what they use to make you not care about the teeth they are yankin out of your head, otherwise known as laughin gas) Imagine if it was flammable, some guy has laughing gas while they fix his teeth, goes out for a smoke afterward .... BOOM, he'd look just like that firebird. Except he'd have nice teeth.:Na_Na_Na_Na:

[lou1355]

Better life through chemistry.

The air we breathe is primarily N2 (78%) and O2 (21%). We all understand that it is not flammable, just as we all understand that you can't build a campfire without air and we also have seen how a blacksmith heats up a charcoal fire by blowing more air on it to "give it more oxygen" and raise the temps to as high as 2000 degrees to soften iron, etc.

Nitrous Oxide, N2O, is one oxygen molecule loosley bound to two nitrogen molecules. It is therefore 67% nitrogen and 33% oxygen, which makes it richer in oxygen than the atmosphere (by about 50%, actually), which makes it usefull as an automotive "oxydizer" because it frees up that oxygen molecule under the heat and pressure of the combustion chamber. What happens to the nitrogen you ask? Well, the same thing that happens to atomospheric nitrogen--it turns into nasty stuff that pisses off environmentalist radicals, but just not as much as atmospheric nitrogen per btu, because there isn't as much of it left over (67% vs. 78%).

The basic objective of an oxydizing power adder is to increase the amount of available oxygen to burn with the fuel. The four ways I am aware of are: (1) turbo charging (using the exhaust gases of the motor to turn a turbine, which compresses the incoming air, providing more atmospheric O2); (2) supercharging (which uses a belt-driven compressor off of the crank pulley to do the same thing); (3) nitrous oxide (which is released into the intake air either before or after the throttle body, under the carb or directly into each intake port, providing an oxygen rich, very cold gas); and (4) using nitromethane as a fuel (CH3NO2, which you can see by the formula carries two oxygen atoms in each molecule--nice--and can be combined with one or more of the other three power adders to produce 8000 horsepower in a V8 engine for crying out loud).

While turbo and super charging increase the charge air temperature through the physics of compression (and therefore are often cooled back down with inter or after coolers, complicating the path of the charge air in some applications), nitrous oxide gets really cold when turning from a liquid into a gas as it leaves the bottle and the lines, and therefore has the added benefit of cooling the charge air rather than adding heat (that is why some say nitrous cars "carry their own DA." It also does not produce the parasitic power losses of turbo and superchargers, it only adds some chassis weight.

Will use of N20 increase cylinder pressures and temperatures? You bet. That is its function: allow more fuel to burn in a given area at a given time. That is how internal combustion engines produce power, right? It just doesn't have to be cooled down before introduction into the combustion chamber because it is already very cold (sub-zero) and yes, it can serve as a chemical "after cooler" on forced air systems, because it will indeed cool the charge air (it is also used on turbo motors to make more power at lower rpm to overcome turbo lag or bog).

Well, boys, that's about all I have learned about the giggle gas.

Oh, and it is a helluva hoot to activate it.

Oh, and I had to install rupture discs in my bottles during the assembly/installation process.

[sinistersix]

nice info you got there. What brand bottle was it that you had to install the rupture disc separately? Maybe we should make a list of bottles that come with and without then already installed because I was under the impression all bottles now a days came with them, so some people out there might have bottles that they think have discs when they dont. That way we can make sure everyone has one.

[lou1355]

nice info you got there. What brand bottle was it that you had to install the rupture disc separately? Maybe we should make a list of bottles that come with and without then already installed because I was under the impression all bottles now a days came with them, so some people out there might have bottles that they think have discs when they dont. That way we can make sure everyone has one.

My 15 lb. bottles came from Nitro Dave at the Nitrous Outlet.

[Super T]

Sounds like the car caught fire,then heated the bottle ,then the bottle exploded,which fed the fire,because the N20 is a accelerent<--Spelling

Just a guess I have not seen the thread in question,but Im positive N20 isnt flamable.Just sharing some info with anyone who reads this thread.

Not even. All it does is take up space, literally. Your engine gulps in air through the vacuum action of a piston's downstroke. The FI system squirts a little boom-boom into the cylinder. The valve closes, the piston rises, and the plug lights it up. 'Cept in a giggle gas application, you spray some of that into the party... the result is, basically, a higher compression ratio, meaning more power to be had. That's it. Spray a bottle of nitrous at a fire, it won't do anything.

[lou1355]

Not even. All it does is take up space, literally. Your engine gulps in air through the vacuum action of a piston's downstroke. The FI system squirts a little boom-boom into the cylinder. The valve closes, the piston rises, and the plug lights it up. 'Cept in a giggle gas application, you spray some of that into the party... the result is, basically, a higher compression ratio, meaning more power to be had. That's it. Spray a bottle of nitrous at a fire, it won't do anything.

SuperT, I bet you are a nice guy and all, but that was a whole mouthful of misinformation in one little sentence.

No disrespect to you, just a reflexive respect for the truth.

There is no way a denser intake charge changes the dynamic compression ratio of an internal combustion engine. By definition, a ratio is a mathematical relationship between variable x (cylinder volume at bottom dead center) and variable y (cylinder volume at top dead center with valves closed). I'll grant you that with nitrous you're going to have a denser intake charge (a good thing) but the ratio between x and y remains unchanged. The thing that increases is the total cylinder pressure. With forced air systems, lower dynamic compression ratios are meant to accommodate that increase in cylinder pressure.

P.S. I'd like to observe that campfire experiment--from a safe distance. While I know there would be no explosion, I also know the wood would burn hotter and faster with the extra oxidizer present--just like a blacksmith's bellows.

[lowriderman3]

Wowzers!!!!!!!!!!!!

[4DRHTRD]

That's about 2 times out of probably a million nitrous users. The first time the guy for sure took off the pop-off valve disk. Dunno about this one.

[4DRHTRD]

Not even. All it does is take up space, literally. Your engine gulps in air through the vacuum action of a piston's downstroke. The FI system squirts a little boom-boom into the cylinder. The valve closes, the piston rises, and the plug lights it up. 'Cept in a giggle gas application, you spray some of that into the party... the result is, basically, a higher compression ratio, meaning more power to be had. That's it. Spray a bottle of nitrous at a fire, it won't do anything.
Nitrous is Nitrogen and two parts oxygen, when you apply heat the chemical bonds are broken down and you get 2 more oxygen molecules per density than normal atmosphere. This allows for a greater explosion and more power. People tried to inject straight oxygen but it wasn't controllable, with the nitrogen molecule thrown in there it's easier to control by the amount you spray in and additional fuel.

[lou1355]

Nitrous is Nitrogen and two parts oxygen, when you apply heat the chemical bonds are broken down and you get 2 more oxygen molecules per density than normal atmosphere. This allows for a greater explosion and more power. People tried to inject straight oxygen but it wasn't controllable, with the nitrogen molecule thrown in there it's easier to control by the amount you spray in and additional fuel.


Close....it is N2O--not N02

Two nitrogen atoms and one oxygen atom per molecule.

Your point about pure O2 is well taken, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide

[aries4life]

Better life through chemistry.
(snip)....(/snip)
Oh, and I had to install rupture discs in my bottles during the assembly/installation process.
Excellent explanation Lou! :thumbs_u:

[1FST4DR]

Not even. All it does is take up space, literally. Your engine gulps in air through the vacuum action of a piston's downstroke. The FI system squirts a little boom-boom into the cylinder. The valve closes, the piston rises, and the plug lights it up. 'Cept in a giggle gas application, you spray some of that into the party... the result is, basically, a higher compression ratio, meaning more power to be had. That's it. Spray a bottle of nitrous at a fire, it won't do anything.


Here you go bud..BTW I used the wrong term,I should have used the word
cataylist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAI0rwRsbU

[sinistersix]

Here you go bud..BTW I used the wrong term,I should have used the word
cataylist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAI0rwRsbU


god damn! wonder if the blowdown tube would have saved him:bahdumcha:

[1FST4DR]

god damn! wonder if the blowdown tube would have saved him:bahdumcha:

On something like that I think the engine caught fire.Then it got so hot
it melted the N20 lines or the noids.So the bottle was open and the N20 was waiting for the noid to open which as we know is in the engine compartment.So in that video it wasnt the bottle.I was just showing what happens when N20 hits an open flame...Make sense??

[Hal'sMag]

The rupture discs are rated at 3000 PSI, give or take a bit.
since we're not running above 1200, I wonder if they can be ordered at a lower releif setting.
I'm assuming ZEX must be required to hydro the bottles before sale.

I bought a used bottle, and never looked for a test date, but think i will now.

I'd bet this travesty was another bottle with no releif disc.

[uglyman8]

When I first got the link to that I wondered if the driver didnt heat his bottle up w/a torch over and over. I have observed the local bikers at the track use a propane torch to heat the bottle up. I never really thought that was a good idea, but Im no expert. Only a consumer! But that guy in the Firebird was a lucky person by not being in the car. Did ya'll notice part of the bottle inb the drivers seat?!?!?!? And if he/she removed the burst disk then they need to be banned from ever using n2o again. That explosion could have just as easily hurt a passer by.....Nasty. But I am glad everyone enjoyed the link. I sure did. The guys in our local club thought this would discourage me from running n2o..not! They just want to have the chance of catching me...:racing::roll:

[1FST4DR]

When I first got the link to that I wondered if the driver didnt heat his bottle up w/a torch over and over. I have observed the local bikers at the track use a propane torch to heat the bottle up. I never really thought that was a good idea, but Im no expert. Only a consumer! But that guy in the Firebird was a lucky person by not being in the car. Did ya'll notice part of the bottle inb the drivers seat?!?!?!? And if he/she removed the burst disk then they need to be banned from ever using n2o again. That explosion could have just as easily hurt a passer by.....Nasty. But I am glad everyone enjoyed the link. I sure did. The guys in our local club thought this would discourage me from running n2o..not! They just want to have the chance of catching me...:racing::roll:

I wouldnt let it discourage you at all.I have been playing with n20 on various cars for 15+ yrs and have never seen that happen.Like anything in life $hit happens.Who knows the full story.BTW never heat the bottle with a torch.It will weakin the bottle.Live and learn.Thanks again for the link it did make good entertainment..

[Ray@NitroDaves]

Maybe we should make a list of bottles that come with and without then already installed because I was under the impression all bottles now a days came with them, so some people out there might have bottles that they think have discs when they dont. That way we can make sure everyone has one.

My 15 lb. bottles came from Nitro Dave at the Nitrous Outlet.

Our bottle are shipped with a safety rupture disc all ready installed. All pressurized cylinders are required to have them.

Now to install a blow down tube you have to replace the factory installed on with a new fitting, this gives you the outside threads needed to attach the blow down tube. The only thing the blow down tube is there for is to vent the discharge outside of the cabin.

On another board it was posted that the owner bought a used bottle that had been invlved in a vehicle fire. This is proof as to why we say DO NOT USE A TORCH to heat a bottle.

[RobAGD]

Yea, I stay away from the wankers that run around with a torch, nothing like heating a bottle and changing the metalurgy of the tank. :panic:

tards

-R

[Super T]

There is no way a denser intake charge changes the dynamic compression ratio of an internal combustion engine. By definition, a ratio is a mathematical relationship between variable x (cylinder volume at bottom dead center) and variable y (cylinder volume at top dead center with valves closed). I'll grant you that with nitrous you're going to have a denser intake charge (a good thing) but the ratio between x and y remains unchanged. The thing that increases is the total cylinder pressure. With forced air systems, lower dynamic compression ratios are meant to accommodate that increase in cylinder pressure.


Definitely didn't type what I meant to say... When it enters the cylinder, it's just taking up space... you essentially reduce your cylinder volume (if you define cylinder volume as the space available to be occupied by a combustible air/fuel mixture). You're right, it's not the ratio, as it's injected while the valve is open. That was my fingers working faster than my brain (happens a lot). But that was my point. Its function is to just sit there until it decomposes at temperature, at which time you get more oxygen. Though I'd like to point out, when the juice comes apart and before the O2 is consumed in combustion, which is about a split second, it does jack up the pressure considerably at that instant, as the separate N2 and O2 gasses are normally much less dense than the combined N2O molecule.
But it's not a fuel (that's why you have to spray fuel too) was really what I was poorly trying to emphasize. Good call Lou, someone reading my post would definitely have been cornfused. :doh:

[EXTREME]

post from a friend of the owner of the car

"that's evan's car. he got the nitrous bottle from a monster truck that caught on fire and wasn't tested. there was glass on top of the roof and in the back yard from the explosion."

[lou1355]

speaking of rupture discs, I had a over-generous fill on one of my 15lb. bottles today and once it thawed out about an hour later it ruptured the disc and blew the entire contents.

$45 worth of nitrous to demonstrate two things: the rupture disc did its job & 2, never ignore a fresh bottle with the guage pegged at 1500 psi.

[ko4000]

Just curious but how much PSI is needed for the bottles disc to let go and spew its contents??

[uglyman8]

Imagine the small world it takes for us to actually find out who the car belongs to and find more of the story!!!!

[RobAGD]

typically about 2600 psi to pop a 1800 working pressure vessel.

-R

[EXTREME]

Just curious but how much PSI is needed for the bottles disc to let go and spew its contents??

Yup!!

http://forums.redlined.org/viewtopic.php?t=7166

[RobAGD]

A few things on bottles be they Fiber Wrapped or Alumium.

When they are made, there are tanks that are tested to failure, every batch has a set tested in this way.

The bottles are marked with serial numbers. a DOT Exemption code with dates of manufacture and with the DOT exemption markings you should also have a working pressure rating.

With Nitrous and CO2 Alumium bottle have a Working pressure of about 1800 psi, the burst disks that are supost to be used would be a 3000psi rupture pressure. Typically they really pop at around 2600-2800 psi.

Fiber bottles are rated at 3000psi and 4500psi and will pop off at 5000 and 7500psi (which also happen to be thier retest pressures). When using them for Co2 or Nitrous use they maybe outfitted with lower pressure disks as most solenoids will have problems activating at pressures above 1500 psi ( example the wussy ZEX kit noids lock up at 1200psi ).

With the alumium tanks if the tank is ever exposed to temps above 160* F they need to be retested.

The fiber tanks can't have visible nicks to the fiber or depressions in the wrap, no charing or exposed fibers.

Most of these tanks are a 5 year re test schedule. The fiber tanks can be 3 or 5 years.

Just some FYI guys

-Robert

[Capt Bly]

Holly Crap!
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/TTAWD/bradspics033.jpg

Did that rear hatch blow open and bend backward???!!!

[hemidup]

Don't really matter...Just some dumb ole crap0 right there.