F/I questions.

[BadDreamSRT8]

I know this is a really newb sort of question. I’ve searched a round and didn’t find what I was looking for. I’ve tried shops but they, so far have wanted to sell more than answer questions. And that’s fine. I’ve been considering F/I for the charger for a while now and the new STS coming out has brought this back the forefront for me.

Is there a consensus on the long term affects of boosting these cars? I mean traditional thinking is you boost a lower compression motor and the best ‘blower’ motor is forged. Too bad I don’t have money to do both. Most all factory blown motors seem to come out this way even today. I’ve also read about the pistons being thin and collapsing a ring. Granted this was noted if you had detonation under boost, and I understand that detonation on a boosted motor is bad and can always cause issues. But I’m wondering if the Hemi is quicker to get hurt if this happens.

If I bolted up the STS as is out of the box would I drastically be shortening the engine’s and drivetrain’s life? I’m guessing on street tires I should go up in smoke before breaking things. I’m not shooting for a 9 second street car, hell my wife usually drives it to the store so it can’t get too hairy. I just love turbos, too bad I don’t know any more about them.

Again my apologizes for the simpleton question. Anyone I know with boost has either a full fledge race car or started with a factory boosted ride. Thanks

[CWHFSR]

First, I'm not a mechanic and do not have any performance mods... so take what I say with a grain of salt! :)

I've been reading up on all the different options to think of what I want (dreaming mostly because I can't afford anything). From what I've seen, if you go with something mild-like under 5-6 lbs of boost, then you should be OK for the long term. This is demonstrated for turbo mostly by CIS who has been running a turbo on a stock bottom end for a good while now (how many miles? 100k?). Also, it looks like most of the Vortech installs are on stock bottom ends.

I really don't know anything about the STS, there hasn't been much converstation about them.

You are right, for the most part, on the street tires. With the mild boost that you would have to run the rest of the system should be good. Heck, even with drag radials I think the first thing that would go would be the 1/2 shafts. From what I've read the transmission and other stuff will be good up until you are going over the 550-600 HP mark.

Detonation can be an issue but that has pretty much been worked out with tuning. You would need to have a Preditor tuner in order to put the tune in to the system. You can also get a water/meth kit installed that would help to eleminate that, and it could help the life of a stock engine.

Hope that helps a bit!

[STREET LIFE R/T]

First, I'm not a mechanic and do not have any performance mods... so take what I say with a grain of salt! :)

I've been reading up on all the different options to think of what I want (dreaming mostly because I can't afford anything). From what I've seen, if you go with something mild-like under 5-6 lbs of boost, then you should be OK for the long term. This is demonstrated for turbo mostly by CIS who has been running a turbo on a stock bottom end for a good while now (how many miles? 100k?). Also, it looks like most of the Vortech installs are on stock bottom ends.

I really don't know anything about the STS, there hasn't been much converstation about them.

You are right, for the most part, on the street tires. With the mild boost that you would have to run the rest of the system should be good. Heck, even with drag radials I think the first thing that would go would be the 1/2 shafts. From what I've read the transmission and other stuff will be good up until you are going over the 550-600 HP mark.

Detonation can be an issue but that has pretty much been worked out with tuning. You would need to have a Preditor tuner in order to put the tune in to the system. You can also get a water/meth kit installed that would help to eleminate that, and it could help the life of a stock engine.

Hope that helps a bit!


Looks like you have been taking notes...very helpful info for those who don't know...Beans for you.:thumbs_u:

[Columbo]

Boost creates more heat and stress on components, but if it's tuned correctly, and if it's kept within the limits of what those components can handle then it's really not that dangerous. Here's my thoughts broken down into categories:

Engine: The pistons are by far the weakest link. In fact...I've never read anything on how strong our rods and crank are because everyone breaks the pistons first and then has to shut it down, so we never get to see how strong the other components are. Having said that, a properly tuned motor can last virtually forever without breaking the top ringland, because detonation is the most likely culprit of the piston failure, and proper tuning eleviates detonation. If you have the budget a forged rotating assembly is a prudent decision, if not keep the boost down and get the best tune you can afford.

Transmissions: Our trannies are plenty strong and with a tunable TCM to increase line pressure and decrease clutch slip they are going to perform even better and be able to hold the increased power longer. Eventually the increased power may lead to a rebuild with better clutches, but how long is still undetermined.

Axles: I'd almost say these were mandatory. With street tires you may be O.K. for the life of the car, but they have broken on stock power levels under certain circumstances, so I'd do them. RDP just came out with a set that will hold 600 H.P. at the wheels for somewhere around $800...a no brainer at that price.

Rear tires: Sacrificial lambs. Plan on buying more.

I had a Vortech on my Mustang years ago that was a daily driver, and driven hard daily, and it went 40,000 miles without a hickup. I did increased maintenance (oil, air filter, plugs, injectors), and always watched out for things with a boost guage, and a wideband to make sure everything was as it should be, and it performed flawlessly.

It's my opinion that if you run the stock motor at around 5-6 psi, and you have a good tune (From the supplier, or CMR) you should have no negative long term effects from running boost.

[STREET LIFE R/T]

Boost creates more heat and stress on components, but if it's tuned correctly, and if it's kept within the limits of what those components can handle then it's really not that dangerous. Here's my thoughts broken down into categories:

Engine: The pistons are by far the weakest link. In fact...I've never read anything on how strong our rods and crank are because everyone breaks the pistons first and then has to shut it down, so we never get to see how strong the other components are. Having said that, a properly tuned motor can last virtually forever without breaking the top ringland, because detonation is the most likely culprit of the piston failure, and proper tuning eleviates detonation. If you have the budget a forged rotating assembly is a prudent decision, if not keep the boost down and get the best tune you can afford.

Transmissions: Our trannies are plenty strong and with a tunable TCM to increase line pressure and decrease clutch slip they are going to perform even better and be able to hold the increased power longer. Eventually the increased power may lead to a rebuild with better clutches, but how long is still undetermined.

Axles: I'd almost say these were mandatory. With street tires you may be O.K. for the life of the car, but they have broken on stock power levels under certain circumstances, so I'd do them. RDP just came out with a set that will hold 600 H.P. at the wheels for somewhere around $800...a no brainer at that price.

Rear tires: Sacrificial lambs. Plan on buying more.

I had a Vortech on my Mustang years ago that was a daily driver, and driven hard daily, and it went 40,000 miles without a hickup. I did increased maintenance (oil, air filter, plugs, injectors), and always watched out for things with a boost guage, and a wideband to make sure everything was as it should be, and it performed flawlessly.

It's my opinion that if you run the stock motor at around 5-6 psi, and you have a good tune (From the supplier, or CMR) you should have no negative long term effects from running boost.


X2....another helpful post.:beerchug:

[MagnumRT05]

Go for it. With my CIS (and this should be the same with all the turbo kits) kit, I ride/coast around town with a stock motor basically since I wont go into boost until I give it a little gas. I say that because you stated that its used for the store sometimes. You will get great gas milage and thats a great plus in my book.

Dont worry about the pistons either. I assume you have the SRT based on your display name, so a turbo kit on some decent boost (say 8 psi at most) will give you some very nice power. Toss a great CMR email tune or dyno tune on there from RDP or Inertia and youll be golden with nothing to worry about. A Labonte or Cooling Mist water/meth kit would also make for some better sleep at night knowing that your keeping temps down and will greatly help with any chances of detonation.

If you dont track race your car, then halfshafts arent needed I wouldnt think. Overall, it sounds like you have your mind made up, so good luck and post some pics when you get your kit:)

[BadDreamSRT8]

Thanks guys. Seems like a lot of the keeping the engine and such alive is in the tune and just plain using your head when it comes to boost.

I probably have some more research to do on it. I was considering a 'blower' cam thinking it might help some (bleeding off) but wasn't sure if its as needed in a PCM controlled car as much as they used them on older engines with high compression. I also don't want to have one of the first kits. I hate being one of the ones finding the gotchas. Especially with my limited experience with turbos.

[CWHFSR]

Well, you won't be one of the first with the system because they have been around long enough now to work out most (if not all) the bugs.

I can't speak for the cam as I have no idea if that would help or not...

[BadDreamSRT8]

Oh, I thought the STS system was just being released.

Well i guess I should ask, can the remote mounted turbo system be run with Long tubes and high flow cats? I'm pretty sure it can I've just read about possible pressure issues. At first I thought it was crazy, headers would cause better flow which would be great for a turbo. But then I saw it in a couple places.

[CWHFSR]

That I don't know. There are differences between the CIS and STS versions of the remote mount turbos. You might also want to either post in the vender section to each of the venders or send them a PM with the specific questions.

[MagnumRT05]

Oh, I thought the STS system was just being released.

Well i guess I should ask, can the remote mounted turbo system be run with Long tubes and high flow cats? I'm pretty sure it can I've just read about possible pressure issues. At first I thought it was crazy, headers would cause better flow which would be great for a turbo. But then I saw it in a couple places.
On the CIS kit, long tubes are going to interfere with the charge piping and the Y behind the tranny mount, so shortys would be easier. Now thats on the CIS kit. As far as the STS kit, youre gonna have to search around for pictures and judge for yourself or post some pics here for us to help you out. Personally, I would just leave the SRT headers alone and go for some high flows. Of course going catless on a turbo setup is best if youre seeking max hp, but youre gonna lose some torque and for me thats the last thing I want as mine is a street car.

[BadDreamSRT8]

Thanks. The headers are already on the car. The STS system is a rear mounted turbo(s) and replaces the mufflers/resonators at the back of the car. Then there is pipework going back to the front.

The only pics I've seen are from a vendor's ride and I didn't see them here so I don't want to promote their stuff.

[Aceman74]

On the CIS kit, long tubes are going to interfere with the charge piping and the Y behind the tranny mount, so shortys would be easier. Now thats on the CIS kit. As far as the STS kit, youre gonna have to search around for pictures and judge for yourself or post some pics here for us to help you out. Personally, I would just leave the SRT headers alone and go for some high flows. Of course going catless on a turbo setup is best if youre seeking max hp, but youre gonna lose some torque and for me thats the last thing I want as mine is a street car.
Something to consider with regards to headers on a turbo application is the size of the pipe. When we install headers the pipe size is larger than stock to allow the exhaust gases to escape quicker. Couple that with an X-pipe that scavenges exhaust gases to produce more horsepower. In a turbo application a larger pipe reduces velocity which help to spool the turbo. So in this case stock or even a smaller diameter pipe is the answer. The more velocity flowing in the manifolds the better for the turbocharger. This is where you hear the term turbo lag, where the turbo cant build boost fast enough. I've never built a kit for the 6.1L car and havent reseached it enough so I may be off a little. I'm sure the experts can shed some more light on this.

[Hemi31]

I would keep it 6psi and less regarless if it's 5.7 or 6.1.The top ringland sucks on both.A 5.7 piston is 3mm and the 6.1 is 5mm.......really nothing to write home about.Get a nice forged piston with a .250" top land and go for 10-12 psi.Rember it's not just the land but the fact that we have nice and brittle Hyperutectic(sp?) pistons.

[RDunn]

First, I'm not a mechanic and do not have any performance mods... so take what I say with a grain of salt! :)

I've been reading up on all the different options to think of what I want (dreaming mostly because I can't afford anything). From what I've seen, if you go with something mild-like under 5-6 lbs of boost, then you should be OK for the long term. This is demonstrated for turbo mostly by CIS who has been running a turbo on a stock bottom end for a good while now (how many miles? 100k?). Also, it looks like most of the Vortech installs are on stock bottom ends.

I really don't know anything about the STS, there hasn't been much converstation about them.

You are right, for the most part, on the street tires. With the mild boost that you would have to run the rest of the system should be good. Heck, even with drag radials I think the first thing that would go would be the 1/2 shafts. From what I've read the transmission and other stuff will be good up until you are going over the 550-600 HP mark.

Detonation can be an issue but that has pretty much been worked out with tuning. You would need to have a Preditor tuner in order to put the tune in to the system. You can also get a water/meth kit installed that would help to eleminate that, and it could help the life of a stock engine.

Hope that helps a bit!


Agreed, beans for you

[RDunn]

i have the mopar full length headers on my car(well what mopar calls a FL) they are actually 3/4 headers. im wondering if my charge pipe is going to have any trouble clearing them? guess i'll find out in a couple weeks when i get my kit in.

so if they dont fit, would the rec. be to switch to the jba shorties and no cats?

[CWHFSR]

Didn't you buy the CIS kit? I would ask CIS and see what they say. From the looks, the system was designed for shorties though. (I'm envious of you!) :)