Energy Suspensions??

[mlgreen]

Anyone heard any word if Energy Suspension is going to release bushings for the LX platform? I know for my 96 Caprice I bought the whole kit that replaced every bushing on my car for under $500 and along with sways cornered like it was on rails!

[GROUNDED]

I would like to see some competition out there in the bushing world.

[Cam]

Yes, they recently came looking for a couple rides to play with. Hopefully they will have something out soon.

[GROUNDED]

Hopefully sooner then later. If I can't get a set of bushings cheap then I will buy the raw material and machine them to my specs and durometer. i <3 cnc lathes.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

you sir are a brave man......

[mlgreen]

Care to elaborate?

[fargo59]

what he's trying to imply is that there is a lot more than just making a firmer bushing to fill the hole. there is engineering time involved, but it should be do-able for someone with some patience and a level head. CNC machines are only as good as the instructions they are given, right?

[GROUNDED]

<----Product Design Engineer

With a specialization in specifically urethane products.

I also have a BSME that is in process.

My side job is designing and manufacturing suspension components for 1 off applications. For instance I just finished a Mumford link setup for a 67 mustang. 7075 aluminum bell crank cnc machined and polished. 1" DOM tubing for the links. I used a mixture of oilite, urethane, and delrin for my connections.

[fargo59]

i figured that, but i was just carrying his message across as i thought Rob meant it.

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

Anyone heard any word if Energy Suspension is going to release bushings for the LX platform? I know for my 96 Caprice I bought the whole kit that replaced every bushing on my car for under $500 and along with sways cornered like it was on rails!

Well to do that today, you gotta spend a TON OF MONEY with Pedders. I knew they were seriously overpriced. :doh:

[GROUNDED]

ive seen full energy bushing sets for under $300. Building them for this price is not out of reach.

[fargo59]

just for the sake of fun, i emailed energy suspension, inquiring about how their kit is progressing. hopefully i get a reply.

[GROUNDED]

I wonder if they get back to you faster then pedders in AU gets back to me about bushing durometers.

[Hemi Mag]

I emailed Prothane and ES in the spring, one of them got back to me saying they had something in the works.

As for past bushing experience the master kit for my neon was $150

AC

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Energy Suspension is not our competition, while they do make some of the same parts, their target customer is not the same as a Pedders Customer.

Energy Suspension tends to put quantity over quality, and they typically have air bubble voids in their parts and other inconsistencies due to their process. Their products tend to use the harder is better type of design, and this is not always the best approach for a bushing, especially on a car that will be driven every day.

For many people this will be sufficient for their needs.for others this will not be acceptable.

Grounded, from what I've seen from your responses to me you are not a Pedders customer, and would be a good candidate for a cheaper option. I wish you luck in your endeavors, and i'm very seroius in that.

Keep in mind also, Pedders is more than just someone that makes bushings, we are unsurpassed in customer service, (what other vendors can you call at all hours of the day and night, and what other company's owner is available to talk to?) Pedders is also a complete suspension solution for the LX. We have the best warranty in the business, with no exclusions for racing, abuse, and other mods, and if the part is installed at a Pedders dealer, the labor is covered at that dealer.

There is a reason that GM has partnered with Pedders on the Corporate Camaro Race Cars, they know what we offer, and have done so for over 50 years, and it's in their best interest to get us involved with the new race cars.

We have just released a few new part numbers for the GTO, why do you care right, well i'll tell you. The GTO hasn't been made in over 2 years, and we are still bringing new parts to the market for them, this is the same type of commitment that we have for the customers that we deal with, we are here for the long term, like it or not.

[GROUNDED]

either way, If a company pops up on EVERY mopar forum as well as GTO forums touting their $2000 bushing kit to be the best thing since sliced bread then I want the proof. I don't want to see videos of people wiggling rubber bushings from youtube to use scare tactics to get people to buy new parts. I want to see HARD technical data that has been created. If you charge that much more then the competition I think us the consumers should know why other then "our products are superior".

[dms motorsport]

The proof is in the road test and driving experience. This is how we promote our Pedders business.

I can tell you our system increased a skid pad test .25 gs and reduced the 60 to 1 stopping by 6 feet, with 20 inch OEM tires.

If you do not have enough understanding about bushig being soft and gains to be made installing some intellegantly made poly bushes, that are designed to reduce noise, then we cannot help you.

I have shown this community the picturs of the witness marks in the body of how much the rear cradle moves (15mm) separate from the body, That is not good enough for some of you. Some of you want vidoes of the movement, The proof is in the roadtest and the pictures of the witness marks! You can do a slalom and feel the back end disconnect and move.

I show this community tearing radius rod bushings that turns out tear pretty easily. The issue is sometimes they are very hard to see. The response I get back is "why has there been no issues with radius rod bushings until Pedders arrived??" My response to this is that no one is checking them, even the dealerships. Clunking noises, toe changes, are a very common problem on the LX platform. We are seeing multiple units tearing on LX vehicles over 25,000 miles. Add big tires and a little sporty driving, and you have exceeded the capacity of this bushing.

So guys who continually make negative comments on Pedders, have never driven a Pedderized LX. So drive one, feel the difference, then become educated enough to make legitimate comments.

Also, a full Track II system will replace 42 bushings on the LX.

And GROUNDED, your bagged, lowered with wheels LX looks great! But at the same time, your bump steer will be more than the normal 10-12mm, found on a normal LX. And the stress on your suspension components is a lot more than normal OEM. There fore, you really should inspect things carefully every 6,000 miles. Also, there has been a large percentage of tie rod failures. Yours will be even more critical to inspect regularly

Also, GM racing will be using some of our Pedders bushes and components on the new Camaros. They are making delron bushings for most of the bushes, but will ahve to replace all of these bushes after every race. The Pedders stuff, they will not have to.

mike
dms

[GROUNDED]

The proof is in the road test and driving experience. This is how we promote our Pedders business.

I can tell you our system increased a skid pad test .25 gs and reduced the 60 to 1 stopping by 6 feet, with 20 inch OEM tires.

If you do not have enough understanding about bushig being soft and gains to be made installing some intellegantly made poly bushes, that are designed to reduce noise, then we cannot help you.


So guys who continually make negative comments on Pedders, have never driven a Pedderized LX. So drive one, feel the difference, then become educated enough to make legitimate comments.


All I was saying is for that price there should be more then a seat of the pants feel. What other data is there other then the skid pad and the stopping distance? If you had your pedders bushings next to some energy ones and both had similar results on the track what would your technical data be to prove yours are worth $1500 or so more.

Also, a full Track II system will replace 42 bushings on the LX.

And GROUNDED, your bagged, lowered with wheels LX looks great! But at the same time, your bump steer will be more than the normal 10-12mm, found on a normal LX. And the stress on your suspension components is a lot more than normal OEM. There fore, you really should inspect things carefully every 6,000 miles. Also, there has been a large percentage of tie rod failures. Yours will be even more critical to inspect regularly


I know my tie rods will poop out again they have once already. Next time they crap out I will be switching to a rebuildable uniball setup. The problem is the suspension was never meant to operate in the range I force it to. There will be several parts that I will end up reworking as time goes on.

[dms motorsport]

All I was saying is for that price there should be more then a seat of the pants feel. What other data is there other then the skid pad and the stopping distance? If you had your pedders bushings next to some energy ones and both had similar results on the track what would your technical data be to prove yours are worth $1500 or so more.

Also, a full Track II system will replace 42 bushings on the LX.


I know my tie rods will poop out again they have once already. Next time they crap out I will be switching to a rebuildable uniball setup. The problem is the suspension was never meant to operate in the range I force it to. There will be several parts that I will end up reworking as time goes on.

Manufacturers measure suspension in terms of G forces, braking, and majorly expensive electronic testing to quantify comfort. GM is much more ahead of the performance suspension game than Chrysler. GM chasis engineers have roadtested extensively, our G8 suspension, and they are quite shocked as to the quality of the ride, and the serious improvement of the handling. We worked with GM, because they recognized our benifits, on the development of their racing Camaro. So we do have some understanding of improvement/quality. We are continuing to work with GM performance and cannot discuss it further, until things are announced with GM first.

But you are a smart guy, and showing you how easily the critical bushes in the LX moves, should be, in terms of handling improvements, should be a absolute no brainer.

Not all bushing material is the same. Not all molds are the same. Making big bushings without bubbles and unwanted voids inside can be challenging. There are all kinds of ways to short cut processes. But the quality that Ron Pedders expects out of his products, is off the charts, and we will do it only 1 way, regardless of costs.

For our springs and struts, we are the only company that literally will dyno test each unit. We are the only suspension company that does not care if you race your LX or not. If you have a probelm with a KW shock or coil and tell them you auto cross, road race, or drag race it, they will deny you warranty. Not us.

mike
dms

[Carfinish]

Yes, they recently came looking for a couple rides to play with. Hopefully they will have something out soon.

awesome!!!...can't wait

[Becker]

Overpriced is overpriced. Ever since these LX cars hit the streets, most manufactures have treated us like we all came from Bendover.

[MuscleMan305]

Im completly a 100% for quality over quantity, but there has to be some kind of middle ground, especially for our cars. In my case, I wouldnt mind paying Pedders prices if i drove a Corvette z06 or something in its class, but i just cant seem to justify it for a 2ton family/musclecar.

[mlgreen]

Energy Suspension is not our competition, while they do make some of the same parts, their target customer is not the same as a Pedders Customer.

Energy Suspension tends to put quantity over quality, and they typically have air bubble voids in their parts and other inconsistencies due to their process. Their products tend to use the harder is better type of design, and this is not always the best approach for a bushing, especially on a car that will be driven every day.

For many people this will be sufficient for their needs.for others this will not be acceptable.

Grounded, from what I've seen from your responses to me you are not a Pedders customer, and would be a good candidate for a cheaper option. I wish you luck in your endeavors, and i'm very seroius in that.

Keep in mind also, Pedders is more than just someone that makes bushings, we are unsurpassed in customer service, (what other vendors can you call at all hours of the day and night, and what other company's owner is available to talk to?) Pedders is also a complete suspension solution for the LX. We have the best warranty in the business, with no exclusions for racing, abuse, and other mods, and if the part is installed at a Pedders dealer, the labor is covered at that dealer.

There is a reason that GM has partnered with Pedders on the Corporate Camaro Race Cars, they know what we offer, and have done so for over 50 years, and it's in their best interest to get us involved with the new race cars.

We have just released a few new part numbers for the GTO, why do you care right, well i'll tell you. The GTO hasn't been made in over 2 years, and we are still bringing new parts to the market for them, this is the same type of commitment that we have for the customers that we deal with, we are here for the long term, like it or not.
I have not heard anything about bubble voids being a problem in the ES bushings in all of the 6+ years i've posted/lurked on the impala ss forum. When buying a B-Body besides basic bolt-ons, getting a set of sways and the energy suspension kit was considered a must for the first mods on that forum. The only real problems i've read about were the bushings squeaking, and I never had that problem. Same with the Prothane bushings on my old Mustang, no probs. However, if I had the disposable funds I would consider going with the Pedders bushes, I have the touring kit sitting in my garage waiting to be installed. But for what may be a $1500+ difference in price, and the fact that I've already had a good experience with Energy Suspensions it's a no brainer IMO. I'm not knocking Pedders at all, I have yet to hear one negative thing about your products, just my opinion.

[GROUNDED]

I just want hard proof to back up their claims that it IS the best. For example, if you were buying a tuner, one cost 200 the other was 600 and the only proof the 600 was worth the extra $400 was that it increased the power 10 fold on the butt dyno but in reality posted no HP numbers to dispute that it is better then the $200 tuner. For that additional 400 I would want to see dyno sheets saying " this tuner is better because of (list empirical data here)". I don't want a test ride... I want to see that pedders hits x on the skid path, energy does y and prothane does z, but include all other facts to show that not only did they develope and test their parts but that it did infact outperform the competition.