Brembo Caliper Piston Corrosion

[skeletonizer]

2006 300c SRT8
I recieved my EBC Yellow Stuff pads yesterday and thought it would be a nice hour project to change them today before I went into work.
Not so much! :SM002:
I started on the right front and noticed that the dust boots did not go back into the caliper like they should. I got to poking around and noticed that thier appeared to be plating coming off the pistons and a lot off corrosion.
Here is what I found:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02129.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02120.jpg
This is not the worst one, it is typical of the four. I have not torn into the other corners yet but I assume they will be the same... at least on the front.
I am posting this up prior to researching options on getting this fixed. If anyone has suggestions I would appreciate it. Please don't tell me to take it to the dealer as that is not an option.
I am hoping that I can get pistons, seals and dust boots for a reasonable amount from somewhere.
I will also flush the system as some of the plating or corrosion may have contaminated it.
Has anyone else experienced this and what was the outcome?

[Super T]

Oh that's reassuring... haven't had to touch mine yet :-/ I would contact one of our vendors that carries Brembo and see if they can get a rebuild kit and pistons?

[skeletonizer]

I am seeing seals and dust boots but not pistons.

[Super T]

Humph... now ya got me paranoid! Ask Nathan to call whoever he knows at Brembo. He was going to talk to them about the fact that the factory Red on his calipers was peeling, too.

[Redfox0099]

...send me some pics and what you need to order at nathan@redfox-racing.com

Mostly I deal with the aftermarket Brembos and last time I asked a question I was told it needed to be handled by a dealer as OEM is not my contacts part of the company but I can try.

[skeletonizer]

...send me some pics and what you need to order at nathan@redfox-racing.com

Mostly I deal with the aftermarket Brembos and last time I asked a question I was told it needed to be handled by a dealer as OEM is not my contacts part of the company but I can try.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Unfortunately I had to go into work. I will get back with you soon.

[Todd TCE]

I remain shocked at the condition of those pistons. Of course I hear the cries of "you can't run non booted pistons" from the Wilwood detractors but I have to say; for those who do so I seldom see anything like that. And this is in a booted street caliper!

I think part of the problem here is that you're dealing with a steel piston. I'm more than a little surprised at the clear chipping of the edge regardless of the material. Seem very excessive wear for such a newer car. Now if you've been running some high-zoot track pad at the local track and burned up the seals you'll have to take some of the blame. If you DO that however I'd suggest you look into some custom made stainless steel parts. While beefier than need be to accommodate the boot they'd hold up better to the conditions and heat too.

Good luck with the repairs regardless. And be sure to post the info on how and were you get this fixed or parts for it. I suspect you won't be the last one.

[skeletonizer]

I just changed out the rears. They showed none of the corrosion or flaking of plating. The pistons are of the cup disign not solid. Not sure if they are oven of the same material.

[skeletonizer]

Just got off the phone with sales at Zeckhausen. No go on the pistons there.

[skeletonizer]

Just got off the phone with sales at Zeckhausen. No go on the pistons there.

They put me in touch with Brake Warehouse. They have reconned front calipers for $150 each. Pistons and seals come to damn near that.
They are going to call me back as soon as they check to see if they have the silver ones.

Both DZ and Brake Warehouse are super cool and easy to deal with.

[skeletonizer]

Upainted brembos coming for $120 each.

So...
When I go to paint these things where do I find a brembo stencil or decals? I want them to appear stock.

[MattRobertson]

Like I said in a PM, I tried to get some info from a Brembo reseller I was sharing an exhibit floor with. He didn't have any specific feedback other than to say this Brembo line and the stuff sold on web sites is nothing in quality like the motor sport line they sell to race teams, which is what he dealt with. He had some gear there and based on what I saw their race reputation is deserved. But thats not what they sell us po' street folk.

[skeletonizer]

The purpose of this post is to consolidate all the pics and text into one coherent narrative to post in the next SRT chat session. This issue has potential to be widespread in the not too distant future. It could be a warranty issue for someone who has not washed their hands of the Chrysler service network. Please provide feedback and suggestions and I will edit the post as needed. Thanks for the help in advance.
Everything below the line will be cut and pasted to the next SRT chat session.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me start by thanking you guys for an awesome machine! It is worth every penny. It has operated nearly flawlessly as a daily driver rain, snow, and shine.
Early in July I attempted to change the brake pads on my 2006 (build date 03/06) Chrysler SRT8. The pad change was initiated due to the fact that the rear pads were nearing the "squeeler" pad wear indicator. They still stopped the car like always but it was time for a swap.
Upon removing the right front pads I noted the plating had come off the face of the caliper pistons. (pic below taken much later after calipers were removed)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02189.jpg
The car is a year round daily driver in Northern Michigan and has approximately 36,000 miles on it. The pads are original and the rotors were replaced per TSB# 05-006-06. The below pics shows the wear on the front pads at the time of the discovery.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02193.jpg
It was noted that the pistons on the inboard side of the caliper would not return to the bottomed out position. The dust boots were rolled back and it was noted that the plating on the pistons had been compromised all the way down to the pressure seal. One of the pistons was removed for further inspection. (pictured below: The top pic is of the piston upon removal, the bottom is after brushing the loose plating away to show the extent of the plating failure.)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02129-1.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02192.jpg
The plating on the outboard pistons did not appear to be as bad. The driver side showed signs of the plating on the face failing (see pic below) but it did not fall off during dis-assembly. Uneven resistance was noted on the inboard pistons of the driver side when placing them into the bottomed out position.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02194.jpg
The dealer had no caliper parts available other than dust boots. They were more than willing to sell me calipers to the tune of $400 each. I have since fixed the problem for considerably less than the cost of just one new caliper.
On a side note the rear pads showed a bevel or taper to the wear. (see pic below)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02186.jpg
What is the purpose of the shim on the rear pad and it's unusual shape? (pic below) Would not the fact that the piston is bisected by the edge of the square holes cause binding of the piston in the bores? Just curious?
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02187.jpg
No doubt you are impressed with my brevity. ;)
Have you noted other failures of this nature?
Is the caliper still an "unserviceable" part as the 2006 Service manual indicates?
Are their plans to offer caliper parts in the future?
Have materials or design changes to the SRT8 calipers been made since the production cycle began?
If another experienced this problem and was willing to let a dealer tech work on the car would it be a warranty item?
Would custom stainless steel pistons work in the caliper without other alterations? (I know, but I have to try. :D)

[EricG]

Tony!!! You are not alone bro

I apologize for the bad photos in advance:
I went in to to have my pads changed and told them to check the caliper pistons. Here's what we found on the driver/front:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04002.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04003.jpg

In my case, the passenger/front was not as bad - maybe just starting to show signs of corrosion but it was evident on most pistons.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04009.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04011.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04012.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04013.jpg

We just re-assembled the fronts with no additional disassembly because the pads were maybe only half worn and they could not be fully serviced/fixed right now and they seem to work fine for the time being so I wanted to leave as is.

My rears seemed to be okay to maybe slightly showing signs of corrosion or all looking good. They were almost all the way worn down so we replaced the pads on both sides. Mine did not wear at an angle, I asked the guy at the shop what he though and he said they might wear at an angle if the pistons were sticking. Something to think about because a lot of people report that tapered or angled wear.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/eandkgreen/DSC04008.jpg

I could not get as many and as good of photos as I would have liked, but this may be more common than we think. Cannot wait until the next chat session to see what the SRT engineers have to say about it. Lord knows an actual Chrysler dealer would probably be worthless about this. I have 22,900 miles on the car.

Edit: Couple thoughts, the rears which both showed minimal to no signs of corrosion had a metal plate between the pads and the caliper pistons. The fronts did not. My mechanic said he sees brakes all the time like our rears and the pistons in them were like all those he has seen on other Brembo equipped cars, he had not seen any like our fronts before - and that backs up your research Tony that our fronts are unique to our cars. They certainly seem to corrode WAY worse than the rears.

Eric

[D's300C]

man, that is crazy. piss poor for a company like brembo to have corrosion like that on a seemingly quality product.

[skeletonizer]

I just spied something interesting. This pic was taken from Dave Zeckhausen's thread about the Posi Quiets:http://www.300cforums.com/forums/tech-tips-diy-how/33761-how-installing-low-dust-brake-pads-srt8.html
It clearly shows a piston of a different desing in the caliper. They appear to be the cup design similar to the rears.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/Empty_caliper.jpg

[skeletonizer]

Recieved my remanufactured calipers from the Brake Warehouse yesterday. Some observations:
The pistons are of the solid design:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02200.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02201.jpg

All my talk of them being made of steel was only partially true. The center section which includes the mounting bracket is steel. The outer portions (where the brembo logo would be) are not. I assume they are aluminum???
You can see that my hi speed $200 Snap-On refrigerator magnet sticks.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02202.jpg
My stainless piston idea would require sleeving. :slap:

The nicest thing about them is that they appear ready for paint.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02199.jpg

[FreebirdSRT]

It looks like you and EricG both live up north and drive your cars year round. Do you think that the road salt in the winter time may have contributed to the piston corrosion?

I live in Texas and we only deal with rain and my pistons still look great, no corrosion.

[EricG]

It looks like you and EricG both live up north and drive your cars year round. Do you think that the road salt in the winter time may have contributed to the piston corrosion?

I live in Texas and we only deal with rain and my pistons still look great, no corrosion.

I'd say that's a reasonable assumption Marc. My 8 has been the daily driver through two winters now, and it does get salty. Mine is never dirty for more than a day though unless it rains or snows a few days in a row.

I fear a lot of us in the northern climates daily driving these beasts may have the same problem and not discovered it yet. I would love to see more photos of front caliper pistons before the next SRT engineers chat session so they will actually believe there is a problem and then maybe we can start the ball rolling that leads to a proper warranty fix.

That photo that Tony posted of one of DZeckhausen's front calpiers leads me to think that the early builds (2-piece front spoiler) got proper dimpled Brembo pistons - which my mechanic said all Brembos he sees have. Then they decided to build so many more SRT8s based on the early success and a switch was made maybe for availability and $$$ reasons and they just kept it that way going forward.

Marc - do you know, are the pistons on the Maggie and FreeBee dimpled or flat like ours? Do you remember what they were like on FreeBird(An early 300)?

Eric

[FreebirdSRT]

I'd say that's a reasonable assumption Marc. My 8 has been the daily driver through two winters now, and it does get salty. Mine is never dirty for more than a day though unless it rains or snows a few days in a row.

I fear a lot of us in the northern climates daily driving these beasts may have the same problem and not discovered it yet. I would love to see more photos of front caliper pistons before the next SRT engineers chat session so they will actually believe there is a problem and then maybe we can start the ball rolling that leads to a proper warranty fix.

That photo that Tony posted of one of DZeckhausen's front calpiers leads me to think that the early builds (2-piece front spoiler) got proper dimpled Brembo pistons - which my mechanic said all Brembos he sees have. Then they decided to build so many more SRT8s based on the early success and a switch was made maybe for availability and $$$ reasons and they just kept it that way going forward.

Marc - do you know, are the pistons on the Maggie and FreeBee dimpled or flat like ours? Do you remember what they were like on FreeBird(An early 300)?

Eric

I do not remember off the top of my head. I guess I can go and look at the Mag and Bee soon and get back to you.

[skeletonizer]

Finally got things back together today. Just haven't had time to wrench on it.
Painted and baked in the gas grill to cure the VHT caliper paint prior to putting on the logos.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02204.jpg

Hi-temp vinyl logos off e-bay.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02205.jpg

Next to the stock peices just for comparison. The logos are bigger than stock and the paint obviously is not clearcoated. I could not find rattle can clearcoat that I was confident in. I have four extra logos so if I have to redo them it will be pretty easy. They are a reasonable approximation to the originals.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02206.jpg

Mounted up prior to bleeding. Sat like this for four damn days.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02207.jpg

The pads.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02212.jpg

Initial impressions after the bedding procedure recommended by EBC is that they feel a little stronger than the stockers. Not sure how long the brake-in compound lasts or if you would notice a difference when it is all worn away.
Quiet under moderate to hard braking. Squeels like a worn out city bus under light braking when rolling up to stop signs. :yikes: Hope that dosn't last long. People are staring at me.
In the end with shipping, brake fluid, paint and stickers it cost around $300 to replace both front calipers. $100+ less than the cost of one caliper from the stealer.
The pads were around $200 for all four corners.

[skeletonizer]

A well know Performance Brake Vendor is working on an option for fixing this problem when (not if) it arrises for others. This thread strarting at post #14 has some good info. http://www.300cforums.com/forums/srt8-specific-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension/58807-brembo-caliper-piston-corrosion-2.html

[Vindes]

I have an 06 Charger SRT8 and noticed the same problems with my pistons when I replaced my pads at about 20K miles.

Fronts were worse than the rears as I recall, but several of the pistons were definitely in bad shape. I recall a few that looked like they were built up of layers of material, like looking at tree rings. The outer rings were flaking off on a couple of them.

They still seem to work fine so I just stuck them back on. Figured I'd beat on them a while and hope that if they're going to die they do it before the warranty goes.

[skeletonizer]

Click here and be astounded.
http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225680&postcount=91

This guy should work at a dealership.

Apparently I am overreacting???

Had I forced those pistons back in and put in the new pads those brakes would not have functioned correctly. It's not like I was or am looking for freebies.

If my calipers failed, which clearly they did, that means others will fail with fewer miles.

I am astounded by the lack of communication here. Even a simple, "We'll take a look at this." or "Thanks for the heads up, we'll check with the dealers and see if they have had any issues that we are unaware of."
Wow. Not the way I would deal with the situation if I were talking with a customer while hundreds of other customers look on.
Sad.

[Todd TCE]

All be damned. Very ingenious.

Make a (cheap) universal iron mount with center plate and differing sides from alum. Why?

Well...because you can cast the center wider and mill it to fit various rotor widths, and probably incorp some alternate bolt spread. The outer sections (while appearing 'hard core' Brembo caliper motif) can be done in various piston sizes then bolted to the iron part to produce application specific needs. (i.e. different buyers)

From the purest point of view you could call it faux-Bro but from the engineering side; brilliant!

[RobAGD]

Skel - Typical with the SRT Chats guys, I gave up because they started insulting me and my data.

Ohh lookie 5hz data logging... isnt that cute.... Blah

Fork em

-R

[EricG]

Yeah, they just chose to not even acknowledge the issue. Funny. Guess I'll have to fix this myself, my only concern is that it will happen again in a couple years. I just don't have the patience to let my local dealer piss around with my car and leave it partially disassembled until they either decided to put it back together with bad pistons or break down and put new calipers on.

Any suggestions on how a guy goes about getting those early build dimpled pistons? Think I should call Cleveland pick a part? I'm pretty sure it is illegal for yards to sell brake parts, isn't it?

They totally dodged the fake x-pipe question too :)

Eric

[EricG]

I'm going to bump this up to the front page.

Any of you guys daily driving these beasts in a climate that sees winter should check out your brakes and try to take some pics for us when you change pads for the first time.

I bet a lot of us haven't looked at that part of the car yet. Let's keep an eye on this over the next year.

Thanks,

Eric

[RARE AIR SRT]

The clearcoat is peeling on my rotors also. It is an 06 MSRT8. The dealer told me that it was my fault and would not replace it, has anyone else had any luck getting these repaired. The clearcoat on my front wheels is also peeling also. Thanks for any input you may have.

Jeff

[tink]

Just changed my pads for the first time. Same thing on the front. The rear are the dimpled kind. Sorry,didn't take pictures. But will save the flaking parts in case they want to see proof. '06 MSRT,29000 miles,winter driven.Build date 4-06.

[EricG]

Thanks for the update tink, just to clarify, you noticed corrosion on the fronts too?

Your Maggie and my 300 are both born 4/06 :beerchug:

Eric

[tink]

Yes,The corrosion was on the front ones. The rear are the kind with the dimples,they didn't look bad.

[EricG]

Just want to bump this for people doing brake jobs...for many of us we are looking at this area for the first time.

Check those pistons people and report back!

Can we make this a sticky?

Eric

[Bx Tpr]

Any updates with a possible solution/fix for these things?

I'm going to be replacing pads in a few weeks and will report what I find.

[skeletonizer]

Any updates with a possible solution/fix for these things?

I'm going to be replacing pads in a few weeks and will report what I find.

Nothing new AFAIK. Brake Warehouse reconditioned Brembos are the cheapest way to go still.

As soon as Zeckhausen posts up anything new on the 300c board I will update here.

[EricG]

I just wanted to post an update, I finally took my car into the dealer to have this looked at. They replaced my calipers under warranty at 29k miles. They described the pistons as "splitting". I was unable to get any newer photos, but I have new front brakes now :)

Eric

[slideway]

I just wanted to post an update, I finally took my car into the dealer to have this looked at. They replaced my calipers under warranty at 29k miles. They described the pistons as "splitting". I was unable to get any newer photos, but I have new front brakes now :)

Eric
Good deal, never hurts to ask! :thumbs_u:

[wbglider]

Just inspected mine and I have the same issue. Now that I'm past 36K, I'll have to try and use the extended, or just get new front calipers & rotors. Who else has this going on?

[nhdave]

Just had my Rfront caliper replaced under my extended..

[followme2DQ]

Ok, I live in a northern climate also, Buffalo, yeah bring it on lol. I only drove my srt when i absolutely needed to this passed winter. well today i went to change my front pads, and guess what....corrosion all over the pistons. well i did not pull the passenger side, saw the condition of the drivers side, put it back together, and off to the dealer.
well the writer there immediately informed me that the caliper will not be covered, because get this lubrication of the slider on the caliper is general mantaince and therefore will not be covered. well i responded to this with, well you have not even looked at it yet, so how can you tell. well i know with my experience blah blah that you need to remove the caliper to compress the piston. and i stopped him and said do you relize i have the brembo brakes on my car? brakes are brakes he says the calipers have to come off. i was like just look at them..its only thursday so ill be back on tuesday. why tuesday he questioned. because thats when i assume you will be able to have the new calipers here and on. left it like that. ill up date as soon as i hear from them. thanks for listening.
oh 2007 300 srt8 22,547.

[DarthMuffin]

well the writer there immediately informed me that the caliper will not be covered, because get this lubrication of the slider on the caliper is general mantaince and therefore will not be covered.

Ask him to show you exactly where this is specified in the maintenance schedule section of the owner's manual.

[skeletonizer]

Ok, I live in a northern climate also, Buffalo, yeah bring it on lol. I only drove my srt when i absolutely needed to this passed winter. well today i went to change my front pads, and guess what....corrosion all over the pistons. well i did not pull the passenger side, saw the condition of the drivers side, put it back together, and off to the dealer.
well the writer there immediately informed me that the caliper will not be covered, because get this lubrication of the slider on the caliper is general mantaince and therefore will not be covered. well i responded to this with, well you have not even looked at it yet, so how can you tell. well i know with my experience blah blah that you need to remove the caliper to compress the piston. and i stopped him and said do you relize i have the brembo brakes on my car? brakes are brakes he says the calipers have to come off. i was like just look at them..its only thursday so ill be back on tuesday. why tuesday he questioned. because thats when i assume you will be able to have the new calipers here and on. left it like that. ill up date as soon as i hear from them. thanks for listening.
oh 2007 300 srt8 22,547.


He is a typical service writer that clearly does not know what he is even talking about. You should have asked him the differnence between a sliding caliper and a fixed and which type was on the car in question. He would probly have glazed over. A$$hat.

[skeletonizer]

Just to update. My rattle can paint job did not fare too well this winter. I will be cleaning this mess up in a few weeks and will tear into them and see how the pistons look then. Will post more pics then.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb217/skeletonized/DSC02693.jpg

[MattRobertson]

Jesus H Christ. No wonder California cars sell for more.

[Super Bee 555]

Was their ever any resolution to this, I ran the Milwaukee Mile the last three days and lost a driver side brake line at 115 MPH, and I think its time to look at rebuilding or replacing my front calipers my dust boots are totally gone and I would hate to think of what my pistons and seal look like.
Has anyone rebuilt them with http://store.zeckhausen.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=13_205_813&products_id=1979&osCsid=sggmie92ibo2rod38bnqj5ruc0 Rebuild kit, what if I need pistons are they available.