Car -pulls- to left or right when braking

[OLJustice]

Title says it all. My car pulls to the left or right when braking from lets say... over 40mph or so. This is NOT a vibration. I had a vibration about 5 months or so ago and had the front rotors and pads completely replaced. The vibration is gone but lately I've noticed that the car will pull to the left and then to the right (or visa-versa) under hard braking. I mean I will literally see the steering wheel move slightly in either direction.

This is very scary if braking hard in a lane in between 2 cars. I have to be very conscious to countersteer and keep her straight. Any suggestions? This is very dangerous. Again, my front pads and rotors are only about 5 months old.


Oh, and she always squeals horribly under very light braking (not when full force is
applied)

[OLJustice]

anyone ever heard of this happening?

[sidetrack]

Rotors and pads would be the first place to look. But yours were recently replaced. Maybe something is leaking on the pads causing inconsistent braking? I would take the car back to the your brake installer. Maybe their install went bad.

[jhs914]

That is a classic symptom of brake fluid leaking on to the brake pads. Pull the wheels and check for signs of fluid leakage.

[skeletonizer]

Do you have stock rotors? It is possible (not probable) that you are experiencing "knock back".

If this happens after hard cornering without brake applied. The outboard brake rotor can flex enough that as it travels through the caliper it's at a slight angle, thus forcing the piston(s) back into the caliper. The pull is experienced when the unaffected brake grabs before the slack in the other one is taken up.

If you preload your brakes when approaching a corner it will minimize knockback. The problem has been adressed electronically in the Challenger SRT8 by using the ABS pump to keep the pads against the rotors.

After reading about this I went out and tried to make it happen in my SRT. I think that it would have to be very extreme driving to make it happen as I could only slightly feel it and only after a four wheel drift.

It was fun though. :mrgreen:

[OLJustice]

That is a classic symptom of brake fluid leaking on to the brake pads. Pull the wheels and check for signs of fluid leakage.

Where would I look for fluid? I'm assuming it wouldnt be on the rotors since they are constantly being "wiped" by the pads. Maybe on or about the caliper?

[OLJustice]

Do you have stock rotors? It is possible (not probable) that you are experiencing "knock back".

If this happens after hard cornering without brake applied. The outboard brake rotor can flex enough that as it travels through the caliper it's at a slight angle, thus forcing the piston(s) back into the caliper. The pull is experienced when the unaffected brake grabs before the slack in the other one is taken up.

If you preload your brakes when approaching a corner it will minimize knockback. The problem has been adressed electronically in the Challenger SRT8 by using the ABS pump to keep the pads against the rotors.

After reading about this I went out and tried to make it happen in my SRT. I think that it would have to be very extreme driving to make it happen as I could only slightly feel it and only after a four wheel drift.

It was fun though. :mrgreen:

This occurs after braking relatively quickly (but not like ABS-Engaging speeds) from.. Oh i'd say 40mph or more. Your theory seems plausible, although it happens to me after straight acceleration :(. To further the description -its like the car suddenly jerks to one side or another after braking. Sometimes it'll go left THEN go right. We're not talking like 90* turn pulling here. But enough to jerk me into the next lane if I let it do what it wants. The wheel follows b/c I can feel it through the wheel. I mean you can actually see it turning slightly. Very very scary.

Rotors are stock. They were replaced by the dealership. Pads are semi-metallic Mopar "Value" brakepads (yeah, I went cheap). A quick trip to RS Strauss revealed that the rear pads have about 35% left on them and the fronts are good (they didn't give me a percentage). Again, I get no vibration so I dont think they are warped, just this really scary & dangerous pulling problem.

[ephines]

This has happened to me. You need check the balance and the air pressure. The brakes were calibrated for stock RT not SRT rotating mass(38 vice 49lbs).

[OLJustice]

This has happened to me. You need check the balance and the air pressure. The brakes were calibrated for stock RT not SRT rotating mass(38 vice 49lbs).

Update: After a quick jaunt to Jersey, I realize that it happens braking from ANY speed. Not from over ~40mph as originally thought. So long as I apply the brakes in a constant linear and firm fashion, it will happen.

I will go out and check my tire pressure right now.

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

You might could take emory cloth and clean off the rotors, then go out and bed in the brakes again. That may help alot.

[Hemi31]

You also might want to check the tie rod ends.

[Bob@SVS]

Could also be a Caster pull check the bushings.



Bob

[MikeEast]

I kinda like Erik's 'check the tie rod ends' - but I think that would also show up as a bit more play in the wheel when driving straight as well. At least all the ones I've replaced over the years felt like that. My 64 VW Transporter had about a 1/4 turn of the steering wheels worth of slop in it.

Mike

[OLJustice]

I checked pressure. Tire pressure is equal on all wheels within +-1psi. I guess the next step is checking tie-rod ends. I truly hope this isn't the issue as they were supposedly replaced at the dealer about 3 or so weeks ago.

[fnkychkn]

verify all front suspension and steering components are in good condition and properly torqued. improper toe setting (alignment) can also cause this.

[gameover]

When was the last time you got an alignment? Might need to be aligned.

[striker071]

Funky chicken to the rescue....

[OLJustice]

Got an alignment today. Its within specs. Tire pressure is not the problem, and there are no brake leaks that I can see.

Could my MSRT8 wheels be an issue? Someone mentioned above that the brakes were designed for RT wheels, not the heavier SRT wheels. Also note that I do not have a spacer on mine just yet so they are rubbing against the arm-I doubt this is related though as they only do this when turning left going in reverse.,

I'm thinking perhaps something needs to be torqued down front? I truly hope it isn't tie rods... im so tired of dealing with them in this car. Plus if it is, that means that my dealer didn't do sh!t. I'd love to know how to check tierod ends myself. Can anyone direct me to a how-to, writeup, or video? I am a visual person so I gotta see how it looks and the orientation of where it is to do it myself.

Also keep in mind that my car has had this problem for a while.. actually now that i think of it before I put on my srt8 suspension or my msrt8 wheels. It just seems to have gotten worse since the new items. One question. If my car is in spec and its still pulling. Will it be bad if I had it taken OUT of spec to compensate? Basically intentionally throwing the alignment off to compensate for the pulling. After all, besides the braking issue, my car has a natural pull to the left anyway.

[klarmie]

Got an alignment today. Its within specs. Tire pressure is not the problem, and there are no brake leaks that I can see.

Could my MSRT8 wheels be an issue? Someone mentioned above that the brakes were designed for RT wheels, not the heavier SRT wheels. Also note that I do not have a spacer on mine just yet so they are rubbing against the arm-I doubt this is related though as they only do this when turning left going in reverse.,

I'm thinking perhaps something needs to be torqued down front? I truly hope it isn't tie rods... im so tired of dealing with them in this car. Plus if it is, that means that my dealer didn't do sh!t. I'd love to know how to check tierod ends myself. Can anyone direct me to a how-to, writeup, or video? I am a visual person so I gotta see how it looks and the orientation of where it is to do it myself.

Also keep in mind that my car has had this problem for a while.. actually now that i think of it before I put on my srt8 suspension or my msrt8 wheels. It just seems to have gotten worse since the new items. One question. If my car is in spec and its still pulling. Will it be bad if I had it taken OUT of spec to compensate? Basically intentionally throwing the alignment off to compensate for the pulling. After all, besides the braking issue, my car has a natural pull to the left anyway.


First you need to fix the obvious...take care of the rubbing. Second, dont off set the alignment for braking concerns. You may have a bushing issue which is allowing the settings to change under load. Did you tell the alignment shop your issues before they did the alignment? If your tires are not directional try crossing them from side to side, ie LF to RF and retest drive to see if the pull changes. You may even want to try bleeding the brakes, dont rule out the rear brakes in this instance either.
Good luck.

[klarmie]

Also try a serch for TSB 02-004-07 for updated alignment specs and verify that those were the specs used for your settings.

[OLJustice]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. i will be going to the dealer tomorrow and presenting them with this TSB. I hope they will do it since the car is out of my factory 36k warranty.

OK guys. I've driven around all day and I have even MORE info/symptoms for those who care to attempt to figure this out.

1st - the car is just plain scary to drive at times. If the road is flat and bump/dip free, then she will ride fine. But I notice that the car will pull (and by 'pull' i mean the steering wheel will change direction w/o me touching it, lol) right to left, left to right or whatever direction it wants when I go over bumps or dips in the road. It turns anywhere between 10-30 degrees. We're talking a serious a noticable change in direction. I have to fight the wheel on bumpy roads to keep her straight. I notice that the wheel dance happens when going over BUMPS or DIPS. Not necessarily normal road cracks or slight potholes. I'm thinking that the angle of the bump is actually moving the wheel in a particular direction?

2nd - Same deal with braking as described in the OP. She pulls violently and quickly to the left/right or even left THEN right when braking. I dont have to be going fast. Just brake in a constant firm linear motion and it will do the wheel dance. I've tried to record it on video for you guys but I cant hold the phone b/c i have to wrestle the wheel!

3rd - The car has a left pull. Even after 2 alignments. She pulls to the left. Not that noticable when driving at in-town speeds (15-25mph) thats why the alignment guy never knows what the hell I'm talking about when he takes it for a test spin. When you get to highway speeds the problem is more noticable. If i let the wheel go at 65mph I will be in the next lane to the left in about 4 seconds.

4th - Suspension has no noticable clunking. All bumps and cracks in the road are dampened nicely as you would notice in a new car. Just a muffled "bump" like you should hear.

5th - BTW Tie-rod wheel shake test came out fine. Wheel had no play when grabbed at 9 and 3 oclock and shaken. These are the fronts. Ive never checked the rear wheels. I still wouldnt rule them out though.


This is simply dangerous and scary. The way the wheel does its own thing during braking and when hitting bumps its very scary. I've had this car serviced twice at the same dealer and supposedly a tierod end and steering rack were replaced. I'm beginning to doubt the versimilitude of what the dealer tells me. If anyone can arm me with some info so I can go into the dealer tomorrow informed, it would be greatly appreciated. I will already be taking Erik's suggestion and asking about tie rod ends. But this time I will have to watch them do the work or no deal. Its getting to that point. Again... this is extremely dangerous and I have not yet been able to enjoy my SRT8 suspension b/c of this. I feel the tighter feeling around turns and better handling but i cant get into it like I want b/c of this DAMN steering problem! I can't drive spirited like I like to or even brake hard at times when I may need to. I had to miss last E-Town's meet b/c of this and I'm sick of it!

[sidetrack]

To rule out the possibility of a bad alignment, post your last alignment camber/caster/toe and other numbers.

Some of what you are describing sounds like major bump steer.
Maybe the steering gear/rack has gone bad.

Do you have any free play in the steering wheel?

[OLJustice]

To rule out the possibility of a bad alignment, post your last alignment camber/caster/toe and other numbers.

Some of what you are describing sounds like major bump steer.
Maybe the steering gear/rack has gone bad.

Do you have any free play in the steering wheel?

There is some slight play in the steering wheel, but I really don't have a reference to compare it to so I don't know what's the norm.

[OLJustice]

Heading to the dealer now guyz, wish me luck :)