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View Full Version : Darth Hemi Reloaded: Custom SRT Wheels and Hot Tires


MattRobertson
03-22-2008, 08:01 PM
I already had a set of track wheels (SRT takeoffs) before I started the Darth Hemi: Reloaded project (http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=90758), but I wanted to make a change and make my SRT track wheels my street wheels, so I could use my forged, chromed 5-spoke Forge-Tec wheels exclusively on the track instead. They are lighter than even the 18" stockers, and about 2 lbs lighter each than the SRT wheels. But before the SRT wheels became my streets, they had to be stepped up a couple of notches, blingwise. I had an idea...

...Actually CoolVanilla had an idea that I stole. His wheels are beyond badass. The spokes are powder-coated black, and so are the edges of the rims, which makes the tires blend visually into the wheels. A very slick and unique look. CV p/c'd the interiors of the wheels the body color of his Magnum -- Cool Vanilla -- and the interior barrels jet black.

What I had in mind was to take the most striking part of that design -- the spokes and rim being black -- and keep that but change up the rest. What I wanted was to match that spoke-and-edge treatment... and chrome everyting else. The one hitch in the giddyup was that CV's powder coater was not a dedicated wheel shop and he wasn't really available anymore. So I hit the internet and the phone book and started talking to custom wheel shops.

After a lot of phone calls, including discussions with what were supposed to be some of the best wheel guys in the LA area, I got back the universal opinion that you cannot powder coat a wheel like that. The detail level is too great and it will run no matter what you do. You absolutely must paint it, and paint would not last... and the general opinion -- even after looking at pics of CV's wheels -- was that CV's were painted. They could not possibly be powdercoated.

Well, thats BS. They are powdercoated. Eventually I was able to beg and plead with CV to talk to his powdercoater to take on another wheel job, and CV went way above and beyond by actually managing the day-to-day direct contact with the guy. I basically dropped my wheels off to him and he dealt with everything. Thank you once again Jason!

Anyway, it turns out its not impossible at all to do the powdercoating. You just have to know enough about what you are doing, and want to do it. As you can see they came out great.

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_exterior_01.jpg

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_beach01.jpg

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_beach02.jpg

But they are not chromed. Thats another thing everyone said could not be done. And again, it turns out it can be done... but its probably a bad idea. The chrome would stick. Thats do-able. But the powdercoating sticking to the chrome? That was unlikely to last. So the alternative was to get the next best thing: Mirror polishing. I found a local chrome shop that also did wheel polishing and, a couple weeks later, the polishing was done... I don't have pics of that and its too bad I don't because they looked really slick.

A final finishing touch to the wheels was to add wheel center caps from Billet Technology. Skulls are a theme on the car and Heidi found a skull-only design they could use. I decided to use a contrasting silver center cap, and chrome lugs.

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_centercaps01.jpg

The pic above does not do these beauties justice. Billet Technology once again kicks ass.

So much for the wheels. I don't believe too many, if any, people have done an SRT wheel like this and the result is both striking and inexpensive as custom finishes go (about $300 for the polishing and roughly that for the powdercoating, if memory serves).

Now on to the tires

I have done a lot to find the best track tires for these cars. And when I say track tires, I do not mean drag radials. Those won't work on the road courses I drive. In an ideal world you have a dedicated race tire that is uber-sticky (treadwear is around 50 -- as in five-zero -- or so) and known commonly as an 'R' Compound. For 20" wheels... they are not out there. For 18" wheels they ARE out there, but the 18" sizes are so low-profile and small in diameter that they are essentially unusable. I have pigeonholed most of the reps for most of the major performance tire manufacturers and have been a) looked at like I am insane for talking about a 20" track tire and b) told they are just beginning to wrap their heads around 18" track tires... let alone 20's.

Fine. So for the near future at least 20" R compound tires are out. Whats the next best thing? So far as most of us know, its the Goodyear F1 Supercar. 220 treadwear and A traction. Lots of people have issues with it, but when you get those tires on the track they work very well. However, when taking unbanked corners you really are going one hell of a lot slower than you'd like to be... they are just not up to the task of keeping a 4400 lb lead sled on the track like a good track tire could.

I went looking everywhere for something better and -- at the time -- there were no tires better than the Goodyears in a stock size. I decided to look around and found that if I went to a 35-aspect ratio tire all of a sudden I had a lot more options (which have gotten a little broader in the months since I bought what I did). There are many hi performance tires in this size, but generally they are astronomically expensive or ill-suited to track use. I found two stars, and went with the first:

The Bridgestone RE-050A Pole Position tire is extremely well rated in its class (Max Performance Summer) and is a very well-established performance tire. It is well known in track and autocross circles and while expensive at $270 each, its not a $400 tire like a lot of others. The tire is AA traction and has a treadwear of 140. Sticks to the road, and sticky. Sounds like a winner. And so far it has been. I got perfect grip out of them on the SpeedFest autocross, and what little performance driving I have done with them on has shown they do extraordinary things with the car in corners. Put simply I can do stuff I never could do before.

The next tire sounds too good to not at least try: The General Exclaim UHP. This tire leads its class in ratings on Tire Rack (Ultra High Performance Summer) and gets excellent reviews from the tire shop I buy from (but nobody they know does what I want to do with them). It has AA traction and a 380 treadwear. Thats a little high, but it does have that AA rating that beats out even the Goodyears. Why is it in my sights? Because they cost a grand total of $111 each. Compared to the alternatives, I'd be insane not to at least try them. Especially with how fast you go thru track tires.

Worth noting are some side benefits to the 35-aspect ratio tires. I am using 245/35/20 in the front and 255/35/20 in the rear (I am keeping the slightly narrower tires in front for max steering response although they are no longer needed to fit properly, which is why the 245's are used on SRT's). These tires are two inches shorter than the stock sizes. That gives us four advantages.
An effective gear reduction. No need to explain that one, right?
The car is lowered by 1" over and above the lowering done by the suspension. This slams the car down low and further helps cornering by lowering the center of gravity.
The chance of tires rubbing the fender wells in extreme cornering -- which on the track is 100% using standard-height tires -- is significantly reduced thanks to the fact the tires are an additional 1" away from the fenders.
The very, VERY narrow sidewalls have much less chance of rolling over in hard cornering. So far as I can tell -- and I have pushed it REALLY hard up in the mountains -- I'm safe on that score.And as I said above... the theory has turned out to work 100% in practice. All of the above assumptions turned out to be true, and the car sticks to the ground like glue.

So what are the drawbacks?
My first worry was the smaller tires would look stupid, but as far as I am concerned, they look fine.
My next worry was ride comfort. While 45-aspect ratio tires are perfectly comfortable -- every bit as much as the 225/60/18 stockers -- the same can not be said of the 35's. Its not bad so much as it is less good. And you are a little creeped out going over potholes. For me, this car is not a daily driver anymore, so I can live with that.
Lastly... this car has now been lowered a total of 3" from stock. If I slide my foot under the mudflap, the bottom of the flap touches the top of my foot. Thats freaking low. Its amazing how many places you can go when slammed down like this, but the fact is you have to plan where you are going with a car this low. I can deal with that since its no longer a daily driver, but in my mind this is the biggest price to pay for using these kinds of tires.But those three worries don't matter one bit if you stick to these tires for track only. Tracks are smooth so ride is not a worry, and neither is height off the ground for the same reason. That leaves looks and the only thing I care about there is how the taillights present themselves.

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_beach03.jpg

bigal470
03-22-2008, 08:55 PM
right on the wheels turned out sweet....

X E Ryder
03-22-2008, 09:04 PM
I got to see these in person at SF08 and they looked cool.

It is a little hard to get your head around the mini diameter - Mother Mopar but some big damn wheels wells on these cars tho, it's the wheel wells not the tires to be honest.

Looking forward to seeing how well they do in April - then we will know for sure aye?

(and nice write up as usual bro!)

MikeE
03-22-2008, 10:03 PM
those wheels look killer

hyperbolic
03-22-2008, 10:13 PM
Those wheels do look very good. Congrats on finding a suitable tire.

NC-SXT
03-22-2008, 10:14 PM
Every step you take is amazing Matt. Sweet look on those wheels.

bruno
03-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Matt,
You have done an incredible amount of research for this quest and it looks like it paid off! I was immediately attracted to your wheels at SF and appreciated all the work that went into their creation. You obviously had a great day with them at the Speed Fest as well.

I'm sure lots of trackers here will appreciate your trials and experiences. Those pics in front of the Pacific look outstanding.

bruno

gameover
03-22-2008, 10:45 PM
The wheels turn out very nice!

CoolVanilla
03-22-2008, 11:00 PM
Eh, they look alright I guess.

:mrgreen:

Great info there Matt. Thanks for the (yet again) very complete and through review.

As for the powder coating... all I can really say is, don't believe it when someone says it can't be done. I've heard at least a dozen times now from various sources that what I (and now Matt) have is "impossible". Obviously, its not. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want more info/detail.

NOTPAID4MSRT8
03-22-2008, 11:21 PM
The wheels are beautiful! Nice explanation on the tire aspect! Thanks!

UPS92008
03-22-2008, 11:55 PM
TIGHT!!!!!!!!!!:thumbs_u::thumbs_u:
Great write up and it looks fuggin sick!!!!:not_worth:not_worth

STREET LIFE R/T
03-23-2008, 12:26 AM
NICE...I like:beerchug:

Hemi4me?
03-23-2008, 01:52 AM
Super trick, they are perfect to me. GOOD JOB

FlyByU
03-23-2008, 02:17 AM
Love it

Tweeder43
03-23-2008, 03:06 AM
That is awesome I love the way they pop!

BUTWEET
03-23-2008, 03:18 AM
Those are looking awesome, Matt. Where have I seen those before? They sure look coooool! :wink:
I'm glad that the tire issue is working to your advantage!

SRoadTrip
03-23-2008, 04:37 AM
Damn you Matt! and your great pictures from Pacific Grove.
Now I need a Road Trip. Wheels look killer!!

Curtis

mofoninja
03-23-2008, 05:02 AM
Love what you've done to the car Matt. Do you have any video of that beast going around a road course?

Becker
03-23-2008, 06:25 AM
So much for the wheels. I don't believe too many, if any, people have done an SRT wheel like this and the result is both striking and inexpensive as custom finishes go (about $300 for the polishing and roughly that for the powdercoating, if memory serves).Matt,

Those look great. I really like seeing something creative being done with the SRT wheels. Unless one considers powder coating the whole wheel black as being creative.

It looks like you got a pretty sweet deal on both the polishing and the powder coating. I've been searching locally for someone to do each of those tasks for a set of SRT Charger wheels and those aren't nearly the prices I'm seeing.

What do you think about the idea of color matching the pockets of the SRT Charger wheels to my Midnight Blue color?

Scott

redrt
03-23-2008, 10:15 AM
nice job!

Mr.Mopar
03-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Those tires look way too short for that car. I fully understand your choice and all.

MattRobertson
03-23-2008, 01:12 PM
Do you have any video of that beast going around a road course?I saw one from RobAGD in one of the video threads, but it was probably my very last run where I had a tranny issue that locked me into 1st and kept my power down low (a low fluid or temperature safe mode, we think). So the motor is whiny and the car is going slow. But thats prolly good if you want to see the wheels roll. Look for Ozzie's SpeedFest video thread. Its probably in there.

It looks like you got a pretty sweet deal on both the polishing and the powder coating. I've been searching locally for someone to do each of those tasks for a set of SRT Charger wheels and those aren't nearly the prices I'm seeing.

Depends on where you are I guess. SoCal pricing is certainly higher than that. I found a guy in Fresno (I work there) who does excellent work to do the polishing. Let me know if you want his number. I really screwed up not taking pics of the wheels just polished as they were stunning. Almost a chrome look but not quite. Very nice. You don't realize how much that grey coating on the SRT wheel interiors dulls them out until you see it removed.


What do you think about the idea of color matching the pockets of the SRT Charger wheels to my Midnight Blue color?

hmmm. Not so fond of it to be honest. Here's why: I am first and foremost not a fan of blacking out the wheels entirely. Just don't personally like the look. Midnight Blue is awfully close to black. If its different enough of a color it'd work pretty good I think. But I would worry about it being too similar that you don't notice the difference unless you look carefully.

What about polishing the spokes and rim (as in leave them alone) and doing the interiors in midnight blue? That'd give you lots of contrast. I think thats been done before, though.

Those tires look way too short for that car. I fully understand your choice and all.

I hear you. Its not that I love the look, but I didn't find it as goofy in person as I thought I would. Remember these are track tires, where looks are unimportant. They only went on the street rims cuz they had to go there due to circumstances. I'm surprised at how well I can get around lowered this much, but my other wheels with the cushy Goodyear F1 Supercars are going back on the car later today. As much as I love the look of the rims, the tires were bought for a specific purpose and I have to save them for that.

Becker
03-23-2008, 02:02 PM
I found a guy in Fresno (I work there) who does excellent work to do the polishing. Let me know if you want his number.

His number would be great. I'm up here in Portland, but it's always good to have that information just in case.

hmmm. Not so fond of it to be honest. Here's why: I am first and foremost not a fan of blacking out the wheels entirely. Just don't personally like the look. Midnight Blue is awfully close to black. If its different enough of a color it'd work pretty good I think. But I would worry about it being too similar that you don't notice the difference unless you look carefully.

Definately not a fan of the blacked out wheels either.

What about polishing the spokes and rim (as in leave them alone) and doing the interiors in midnight blue? That'd give you lots of contrast. I think thats been done before, though.

That's what I'm talking about, just the painting the pockets Midnight Blue like the new Superbee's wheels are black. The face surface would stay polished or maybe a machined look. These are the CSRT wheels, a little bit different beast than the MSRT wheels. I have a different idea for the MSRT wheels I have. There is definately too much color when painting the entire pocket on the MSRT wheels black or body color.

TTMR
03-23-2008, 02:17 PM
May I ask about the slicks you found for the 18s? I've found some with a 30 aspect ratio, I'm sure that they will look a little off but are they too low?

MattRobertson
03-23-2008, 06:01 PM
May I ask about the slicks you found for the 18s? I've found some with a 30 aspect ratio

I haven't reviewed the market in awhile, so I did a mini on tirerack. What you have to do is go brand by brand and look at their competition category, if there is one. Remember these are track radials and not drag radials. The 255/45/20 tire has a 29" diameter and the 225/60/18 is just a hair under that:

BFG g-Force R1 in 245/40/18. 25.4" diameter. $263 each
Hoosier A6 in 245/40/18. 25.3" diameter. $282 (265/35/19 tires are available for $309)
Hoosier R6. 255/40/18, 26.1" diameter, $287.
Kumho Ecsta V700 245/35/18. 24.8" diameter. $247.
Kumho Ecsta V710 245/35/18. 24.8" diameter. $271. Horrifyingly bad wet performance
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, 235/40/18. 25.1" diameter. $285
Pirelli PZero Corsa, 225/40/18, 25" diameter, $218 (closeout!)
Pierlli PZero Corsa System Direzionale, 235/40/18. 25.2", $329
Yokohama Advan A048, 225/40/18, 25", $272Note that most of the tires above (all but the Yoko's) are too wide for the stock rims. They are typically recommended for an 8.5" wheel and doing track cornering... I wouldn't feel good about pushing that. Also there are more sizes than these. The market has filled out in the months since I have gone thru everything...

I'm sure that they will look a little off but are they too low?If stock diameter is about 29", and I have shaved off 2" with 35-aspect ratio 20's, and you are going to shave off two more inches (give or take) by going with lo-profile 18's... You are getting a 2" drop just from your tires, which have been reduced in diameter by 4". No way would I run those on the street. If you have the mudflaps, they will literally be an inch off the ground, if that. They will work on a smooth road race track but thats it, imho.

The tires above are new sizes. I don't remember seeing ANY 40-series tires when I was shopping six months ago but the market is becoming aware of big track tire needs and responding. If anyone comes out with a 20, I bet it will be Hoosier since they already have a bunch of 19's, but Porsche is using bigger tires now (you can use 19's on the Cayman as an option) so if performance auto mfrs go big, we'll get what we need in R compounds sooner or later

imahemi
03-23-2008, 06:09 PM
Those look great!!!!

GoofyTimL
03-23-2008, 06:33 PM
Where have I been? When did you lose the ghost flames?

Other than that this whole process has been fascinating to read about... and dream.

BlsdEsq
03-23-2008, 09:05 PM
That's what I'm talking about!!!! I wanted to do the PC and Chrome treatment to my MSRT wheels and was told it couldn't be done also. I never considered just going with a polished finish. They came out GREAT!!!!

hops23
03-23-2008, 10:17 PM
Those look sweet! I'm in the process of finding a powder coater to do the 08 option wheels I just bought. Looking at doing something similar except keeping the spokes and rim polished and getting the rest pc. Just gotta decide on what color.

MattRobertson
03-23-2008, 10:58 PM
When did you lose the ghost flames?
they're still there. they're just... ghostly. They are invisible in many different kinds of light. Look at the 3rd pic in the post. You can just barely see them.

But with the evening sunlight on them they pop right out.

http://foohbar.com/magnum/dhr_bigcans01.jpg

TTMR
03-24-2008, 12:27 AM
Thanks! I've been looking at those BFG's that you mentioned. I have some 18s on the way and I need a tire for auto-x. Being in the ESP class already I might as well run a slick.

grinner
04-07-2008, 01:14 PM
good gracious, thats a mean lookin magnum, man.
I loooove those wheels. Very nice work.
Thats the perfect mix of black and highlights down there now. The hood rocks... diggin everything about it.

36 chambers
04-07-2008, 01:25 PM
love um i dont know how i missed this thread but seen them at the sf and i think i drooled on um a bit :) hers what mine look like!!!!
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/anthonyvita/IMG_0016b.jpg

MattRobertson
05-27-2008, 08:34 PM
I got a new set of track wheels so I was able to pull the Bridgestones off and put the old "big" GoodYear F1 Supercars back on the stockers.

Wow what a difference in the look of the car. It looks like a dune buggy compared to the slammed look that goes with the short, low profile Bridgestones. Ride is different too. Smoother. Can't tell how it corners yet cuz I still have the track wheels and tires in the back of the car.

Pics when I get the wheels polished back up this weekend.

Speaking of which, I found a fantastic wheel polishing compound with the help of Jerry's Paint & Supply in Sacramento CA. See, I spilled brake fluid on the wheels while running at Laguna in April and brake fluid stains polished aluminum... black. It looked horrible and I thought the wheels were ruined.

Bob@SVS steered me to Jerry's and I spent some time with a guy there who seemed to know his stuff, and spent some time with me figuring out what was best to use. I left with a pack of 2000-grit wet/dry sandpaper and a 1-liter bottle of Ardex Alpha Grit and another of Ardex finishing polish.

I did one wheel with the sandpaper (you can dry sand but it works a lot better with the paper wet. I used detail spray to wet it). The sandpaper took a lot of elbow grease but it got the job done. The finish was dulled noticeably but then I put a 4" foam spot-buff pad (bright yellow, heavy cut) onto my portable drill, glopped on a small amount of Alpha Grit and went at it. In a couple of minutes the wheel pocket was like new again. It was amazing.

Doing the next wheel, I decided to just try the drill and pad and sure enough, the dam drill wiped the stains away in mere seconds. No sanding needed.

The first wheel with sanding was like an hour's work. The last three all together were 20 minutes. If I had taken my time to get it perfect, I would have done all four in an hour. Definitely the way to go with polished alloy. FYI I also tried wool spot pads and they worked but the yellow cut pads worked better. There are orange mild cut pads that are probably better for the less serious jobs. The pads are like $10 for two of them. The Alpha Grit was $7.99 for a liter and I barely used a few ounces.

Bud
05-27-2008, 10:47 PM
Matt - The car looks great! I'm surprised you haven't looked into the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's. I have the SUV version (stiffer sidewalls = good for road courses) in a 275/40/20's on all four corners. They also have the sedan version in a 275/35 ZR 20 102 Y XL. I did some comparisons between the F1's and V's and "I" found the V's to be much more confidence inspiring and predictable than the F1's....and the F1's are a GREAT tire. And read my quote in my sig so you know I'm not talking about drag racing! LOL

Texas Tran
05-27-2008, 11:49 PM
Bad ass wheels. Bad ass ride! I love it all!

MoparPosterChild
05-28-2008, 12:05 AM
Looks great! I read in your first post something about powdercoating not sticking to chrome, but I heard just the opposite. Someone told me that you can PC right over chrome no problem. Anyone else have any info on this?

jaak
06-13-2008, 06:44 PM
Wow Matt those wheels look awesome! Hmmm.....

MattRobertson
06-13-2008, 08:03 PM
Wow I missed all the posts in here in the last few weeks. Thanks for your comments guys. On a side note I have a few nicks in them where the pc has flaked off. My bad entirely. Needed help to get that way. I was told back when I was setting this up that some black nail polish was the solution to that expected problem. We'll see.

I'm surprised you haven't looked into the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's. Actually I have. They aren't such a great choice for the track; especially since I could only put them on the front in that big 275/40/20 size and that is WAY too big for good steering response. So they'd be rears-only and I am not so keen on figuring out by trial and error what a good combo is for dissimilar front/rear tires. Plus they are high profile which is inferior for a road race course. Low-pro tires are both lighter and quicker -- the 2" diameter size reduction is also an effective gear reduction.

I have pretty much killed my front tires - the 245/35/20's. They might be good for another day on the track but the sidewalls are just fried from having them roll over due to uber-cornering. The inside show torque cracking which is no biggie for the street... the track is a different story. They have good tread left, so I think I will retire the fronts and save them for street tires. Eventually I'll wear out another pair and by then it may be time to say bye to the F1's.

concussion
08-13-2008, 01:43 AM
great write up matt. The wheels look sick as well.
Burleson

ProfeZZor X
08-13-2008, 03:30 PM
Those wheels are absolutely sick... You've inspired me to do the same to my custom wheels, versus going all black.

MattRobertson
08-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Those wheels are absolutely sick... You've inspired me to do the same to my custom wheels, versus going all black.
You won't regret it, but if you can chrome them. Taking care of polished aluminum vs. chrome is a gigantic PITA.

Becker
08-13-2008, 05:34 PM
You won't regret it, but if you can chrome them. Taking care of polished aluminum vs. chrome is a gigantic PITA.And here my polisher said just keep them clean and do a light re-polish every six months. Not true?

Matt, where can I get those Ardex products?

Thanks,
Scott

MattRobertson
08-13-2008, 11:37 PM
I wouldn't say 'not true' as much as I would say 'optimistic'. And its not so much about polishing, compared to chrome any polished wheel is more trouble. With chrome you just wipe with a damp rag and you are done. Crud seems to stick faster, too. Or maybe it is that chrome is so bright and shiny that it takes longer to make it look dull enough to make you want to clean it. Thats probably it. Either way, compared to my chrome wheels I spend more time on these.

On the plus side, these 5-spokes have simple surfaces easy to get to. My chrome MC2's had crannies that always took extra work.

You're just going to have to look for professional body care/paint shops to get hold of the Ardex stuff. I have looked all over on the internet and while I have found the products, I haven't found it for sale online.

elcrt
08-14-2008, 12:51 AM
awesome wheels!!!

Becker
08-14-2008, 03:37 AM
I wouldn't say 'not true' as much as I would say 'optimistic'. And its not so much about polishing, compared to chrome any polished wheel is more trouble. With chrome you just wipe with a damp rag and you are done. Crud seems to stick faster, too. Or maybe it is that chrome is so bright and shiny that it takes longer to make it look dull enough to make you want to clean it. Thats probably it. Either way, compared to my chrome wheels I spend more time on these.

On the plus side, these 5-spokes have simple surfaces easy to get to. My chrome MC2's had crannies that always took extra work.

You're just going to have to look for professional body care/paint shops to get hold of the Ardex stuff. I have looked all over on the internet and while I have found the products, I haven't found it for sale online.Thanks Matt.

So, clearcoat is not an option for you?